About mother spoiling toddler classes

[backrolls]

More of a wwyd but I'm completely prepared to be told IABU! Sorry for the essay:

I live in quite a quiet area where lots of toddler groups and classes are run by volunteers throughout the week, and they are really lovely. There's a real mix too such as craft, music and even cooking and they are a great place for lonely mums to meet other people and get out of the house.

My young DS particularly likes a baby gym class that runs early on a Monday, which has circle time, songs, free play and a snack. The groups are really friendly and not cliquey in the slightest, so you are guaranteed a friendly welcome if you are having one of those days - everyone's stance is they have all been there!

Anyhow, there's a Mum who comes along to this group who is, quite frankly, awful to her DC who is no older than 2. She starts off ok but when the child doesn't want to join in, she shouts at them and saying they are 'naughty' and 'so irritating'. She usually spends the classes shouting at the DC, or playing on her phone during the free play which is supposed to be supervised by parents. She isn't physical, but very vocal. I've given her the benefit of the doubt and tried to show some kindness, bringing her a cup of tea and offering to help her DC navigate the play gym, and the staff have always been considerate. It's gotten to the point where the classes are so toxic in her presence people have stopped going along. When challenged she is awful, I guess people are a bit scared of her but have tried to intervene for her DC's sake and some have also tried to befriend the Mum.

Thing is, this Mum goes to every class going. She's recently signed up to a paid mini art and drama class my close friend runs and every week this mother is creating chaos where her DC just doesn't want to join in and is being physically forced to. My friend is very shy, and buying this franchise was a huge deal for her but this Mum is scaring off all her customers. It's block booking and this Mum has paid for the whole term up front, so is just as entitled to be there. My friend tried to gently suggest that if her child wasn't enjoying the classes she would be happy to give a refund, but the response was so aggressive it made her very anxious.

Am IBU where I think it's not fair that this Mum gets to ruin classes for other children and their parents? The free ones may be the only way she can get out of the house and I get it that she has every right to be there. Surely the same can't be said for paid classes though. WWYD and any advice for my friend?

Also people don’t tend to respond well to being challenged. When I’ve come across parents who speak to their children in the way you describe at groups I talk to the child pleasantly, compliment them etc and most parents will then follow the same tone.

It's more gently challenging, like when she spilled her painting water she screamed at her for being 'stupid' and I stepped in to say 'please don't worry, my son poured his on the floor last week! I'll grab some napkins.' I get back 'she can bloody well do it herself".

My friend has had people dropping out of her class for weeks, a few who quietly confided in her that they just couldn't cope with the tension but weren't 'mentioning any names'.

Interesting about the behaviour policy, I don't think she should be banned though as it may be a lifeline for her. I just don't know where my friend stands on the paid classes front!

I shouldn't let it stop me going, that's true. I dislike confrontation at the best of times but it isn't fair on my DS if I stop going altogether.

I don't know why everyone is going about cliques
The OP has made it clear that she and the others are trying their best to be friendly to this woman. It's nothing to do with cliques.
It sounds like an incredibly difficult situation. Someone needs to say to her that her aggressive behaviour is putting people off attending, that these classes are meant to be peaceful and relaxed. Is there some way that this message can be communicated to all the parents who attend, not just her? So that she is not singled out in a way that would embarrass her? Are there any ground rules to these groups? If you google it, you could probably find some generic ground rules you (or your friend) could adapt and give to everyone who comes - things like, people being spoken to in a respectful manner, no shouting, no phones as this is a time to interact with your child...etc.
If it sounds OTT I used to go to a lovely stay and play where they enforced rules like this. Once I was texting, and someone came up to me and asked me to put my phone away.
I think your shy friend needs to find a way to tell this woman that this isn't on, or this isn't going to work out too well for her. Good luck

YANBU. Some rather pious responses... Some people are just unpleasant and make others uncomfortable. It's not always that they are 'struggling' with being a parent and all they need is a bit of support. I've left baby/toddler groups before because of one parent or child behaving horribly. It's definitely not that I am the clique luckily I live in an area with lots of choice so I've been able to go to other things instead.

I'm very quiet, mild-mannered and non-confrontational so I feel for your friend running the art class. I would find that a really difficult situation to manage.

You didn't say how people go about challenging her? Perhaps she feels patronised?

I'm surprised that no-one in any of the groups is able to manage this. It's not unusual for a toddler group to have a stressed mum in attendance or challenging children, so the group organisers need to work out strategies for this.
In every group I attended, the group leader or a helper would make a point of sitting with any stressed mum, or of playing with their child so the mum could get a break.

@backrolls
I posted above but reading more you mentioned your friend has a franchise?
In addition to the safeguarding policy document and so on that she will have she will also have a franchisor.

If the behaviours exhibited by the Mum warrant it then tell her to follow her safeguarding procedure and tell her to contact her franchisor.

Well while I don’t agree with the swearing my kids have cleaned up their own messes as soon as they were able to and helped before then so I wouldn’t have a problem with a 2 yr old getting some napkins and wiping up spilled water.

CBeebies what the has being poor got to do with it?

I think Strawberryredhead has a good idea. Could there be a group activity one week where all the parents and children make up the 'group rules' and write them up, and each week they are displayed? I actually would find that useful at some of the groups I attend where other parents seem to think grabbing, hitting, biting etc are all ok and indeed adorable/hilarious

You're such a judgey pants

Why don't you just help her

You are excluding her thinking you don't want her there etc

She clearly is a good mum if she cares enough to take her ungrateful little brats to all of these classes

Text her and see how she is ask if she wants a coffee instead of spending your time being a little brat on here

*hell

She sounds vile.

If it were me and she was local, I'd be inviting the local health visitor along to observe the meeting. If she's that abusive to her child, it needs reporting.

@suddenlypanicked

U OK hun

If it's different people every time then she can't be scaring everyone off. The people who run these groups need to say to the woman something along the lines of 'we talk nicely to eachother' when the mum is saying things like shut up to her child, just like they would say 'we don't swear' in a patronising talking to children voice if she were swearing around the children. It sounds like your being nice making her a cup of tea but there is a clearly a clique going on if nobody is trying to stop this behaviour and people are just moaning about her. Somebody must be running these groups and they are allowing them to be ruined, just as much as she is ruining them.

Like others have said, your friend with the franchise needs to learn how to handle people if she wants to be successful.

Sorry. Posted before seeing your response. Perhaps your friend can make up some house rules and if she doesn't follow them ask her to leave and refund the money to her. How about a letter to each class member? If she is that bad, everyone will know who it's aimed at.

Sorry cross posting with a lot of people - my DS is asleep on me as I type! Some really good advice here, particularly the positive approach and suggestions of what my friend would say and safeguarding. Thank you.

Maybe I did come across as 'bitchy' but that certainly wasn't my intention. It's hard to get the tone right when typing out something and trying not to miss out details so as not to drip feed! I am exasperated by this woman admittedly, but can't exactly ask anyone who knows her because that's bitchy in itself. I will take a step back and try and see it from a different perspective though, I've had my share of bad days and get snappy myself

Oh wait I read the updates
She doesn't sound like a stunner but I would try to help her before inviting a health visitor 🙄

Maybe your friend could give out some leaflets with some art ideas on and also a bit of parenting info. I saw a good poster on SM about the words you use becoming your child’s self image with some ‘instead of saying this try saying this’ ideas.

If you think baby groups aren’t cliquey, you’re in the clique.

This.

Also, the mum is probably feeling awfully embarrassed and judged because her child won't join in in the same way as the others. But what's the alternative for her, staying in on her own all day? She was probably snappy when judged because she's probably already anxious about her child not being "easy" and flight or fight kicked in when attention was brought to it.

It is hard being judged unfairly when parenting, as small children can be a real handful. I’ll never forget the way a couple with their PFB made me feel after me and DP had taken our 3 year old DD for a lovely day out. DD was tired as was I and she was point blank refusing to come across a weird criss cross zebra crossing with loads of cars around on the way home. I looked over at my DP who had already cross with DS in pure frustration and said “right, she’s not getting any treats any more!”. I’m fine to admit it wasn’t my finest hour, but the way this couple looked at me and pointedly said to their own DC “Good boy’ that’s it” etc etc.

It is the lowest feeling when someone takes a small snapshot of your day/life/relationship with your DC and uses it as a stick to beat you with, in all their superiority. However, if this behaviour is consistent and the poor little DC looks unhappy I can see why you wouldn’t want to be near her.

It’s tough though as literally what can you do? And at least her behaviour is being noticed. If she never took her DC anywhere the poor little one would be stuck with her constantly (if she really is that bad).

She could be having a tough time of it but some people just aren't very nice, perhaps she is one of those people. It sounds like you have made an effort with her, to no avail. Your friend needs to sort this out if it's affecting her business, does she know anyone who runs a similar business that could advise her what to do?

The thing is though, if you are genuinely concerned that this woman is a horrible mother and emotionally abusing her child, why have you not reported it to social services?

If I witnessed a parent consistently behaving in the manner you describe, my primary concern would not be the fact she was spoiling toddler groups which, let's be honest, are more for the parents than the children anyway.

I think she feels judged and stressed. I bet she can pick up the judgey facial expressions of the other mums, which in turn makes her act even more stressed.

She sounds like a nightmare and you sound like you're trying your best.

Tbh, an anonymous phone call to SS. might be in order. The poor child needed help.