To think this is ridiculous and will mostly affect the poor of London?

[mothertruck3r]

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/new-emissions-zone-to-hit-drivers-with-1250-a-day-pollution-tax-a3858531.html

I understand he wants to reduce pollution but how is this going to help the hundreds of thousands of poor people who can't afford to buy a new car, pay the fee (£12.50 per day!) or pay the fine, especially after people were encouraged to buy diesel cars?

Great if you are rich and can easily buy a new car but there are loads of poor people in London who can't do this and rely on their old car for their jobs, taking kids to school, disabled getting about etc.

It's not very well thought through. I thought Labour was supposed to be the party to help the poor. Seems all this will do is help boost new car sales for big manufacturers whilst screwing a huge part of the electorate that voted for him !

I think you have to be rich to live in London, it's not a place for the poorer.
it's not a new concept, the poor have to leave, I don't agree, but not surprising.

I use my car for work in London (I have to carry specialist equipment so public transport is not possible). I would not be able to afford this. I drive a 12 year old car so would not be caught at present but would be soon. Not sure how this would work. My car has a new engine so just as efficient as a new car but I'd have to pay I assume. Seems very unfair.

But it will help the children of London, who are being killed by air pollution, or facing long term health issues because of it, and poor children are worst affected (most likely to live in polluted areas, least likely to access the best medical care).

Bottom line is is time for radical action. If we don’t stop fucking up our environment then millions if not billions of people will die.

So while I sort of agree with you, we’ve reached a stage where environmental issues have to take priority.

Yep we have to and tough shit

We're in the larger zone and dh's car turns 15 years old exactly at the time the new zone kicks in and we will have to pay

So obviously we will get rid of it then

He will either take the bus - much more inconvenient for him or we will buy a compliant car

Health is more important

Yes, it’s tough, particularly on poorer people. But the truth is that few things are more important than addressing our toxic air problem (which, as a PP pointed out, disproportionately affect poorer people as well). It really is life and death, as well as affecting the future of our planet.

I agree with you OP. As someone who grew up in London in an area with a great mix of people/classes this is pretty disastrous. Sure the environment is important but for some reason it’s always the poor affected whereas the rich already have a sufficiently new car so can just sit there patting themselves on the back. There are literally people that will lose their jobs because of this as they can’t afford a new car and it’s essential for their commute. Sure there’s good public transport in general and I do miss it now that I’m in the US but there are still cases where car use is unavoidable.

I don’t know what the solution is besides something ridiculously impractical like assessing each person’s need for a car but at least that wouldn’t impoverish some people.

Public transport in London is quite good. Always a bus, train, tube or tram that will get you to where you need to be. Probably quicker than driving too.

I actually think it's just a way to help the ailing car manufacturers and TFL. I'd like to see how the transport infrastructure will be improved to cope with the extra passengers caused by this move.

If you live in London you shouldn't really be needing to drive kids to school

People seem to be keen on the principle that that the polluter pays, until it's pointed out that they are the polluter and two need to pay soon.

If you are a ULEZ resident, you get an extended transition period, also cars registered for the disabled. And classic cars - so those people with very old cars will be fine too.

Public transport is very good, so I don't really see the need to drive a polluting vehicle in central London for the school run etc

But I am wondering how old are vehicles that people were encouraged by the government to buy under the scrappage scheme. Are they likely to fail the emissions limit, because it does seem mildly unfair to be penalised later down the line for choosing the car the government urged you with financial incentive to get.

@masterandmargarita

Most of the time that’s very true. The issue isn’t getting kids to school. The bigger problem is people in jobs that require a car such as carers etc who often will not be able to find employment if they can’t drive their car.

Also the people using their cars most wastefully are the ones with the new cars that fit regulations. They don’t care about fuel or parking costs. The less well off people are the ones with the cars that are now being regulated and are much more likely to only use their cars when needed or to have one per household.

That’s also a big issue, 3 of the newest cars are still going to have worse emissions than 1 older car. So rich people are going to keep doing what they’re doing with their multiple cars and more frequent usage whereas the poor are expected to in some cases give up their livelihood for the good of the planet.

The exception of classic cars is also there to accommodate the rich. Sorry but in the UK with all the insurance issues etc, driving around in an old jag isn’t a cheap thing to do. Surely those cars should be equally penalized? Or is it okay for someone to go for their weekend cruising around central London in their classic car but completely abhorrent that someone may need to use their slightly worse on the emissions scale car for work?

It's not about the age of the car. It's the emissions. Not sure about petrol but diesal has to be Euro 6.
Mynextgreencar.com can tell you if your car is EURO 6 or not.

We live in London without a car and you just adjust - choose schools within walking distance and so on. I use specialist and bulky equipment and have either bought special bags and trolleys for use on public transport, or if there is too much on any day I get a minicab or zipcar with the money I don't spend on car maintenance or parking.

I notice that people with cars do use them when it would be easy to walk or get the bus.

I think you have to be rich to live in London, it's not a place for the poorer.

Ah a good old social cleansing stuff em post - straight in at number 1!

London is easy to get around via public transport. I would agree it would be wrong for other places, but in London you are choosing to drive.

They ought to clamp down much more on pollution caused by building works. We are going to have 1000s of HGVs going through our area in the next few years because of building, both public and private developers

Of all the places where you do not need a car, London is one!

If you are that poor, it's the first thing you can get rid of - you are likely to get free travel anyway.

Many people, and not poor, never bother with a car in London. It's not even driving the problem, it's parking. Supermarkets deliver, there are tubes, buses, trains, possibly trams, boats even.

I fail to master any sympathy, sorry, most of us relay on public transport. Unless you have a trade and really need your tools, you don't need a car. Even if you need a mini-cab once a month for special circumstances, it still cost less than your car would.

It’s not just old cars. We’ve got a four year old Nissan qashqai which is going to be caught under it. When we bought it it was an ultra low emissions car so v unfair we’re gojnf to be caught (DH had no idea until I put the number plate into the website thing).

We need radical action. Air pollution is doing terrible things to children’s health, and this disproportionately impacts poor children as they tend to live in more polluted areas.

I’ll be caught by this. The car will go and I’ll use a taxi or a car share for the few actual essential car journeys - with the mo eg saved by not having car insurance, tax, services and MoT and parking permit.

That being said we use public transport ALL THE TIME. I don’t drive but we need to car to pick my elderly MIL up from Victoria station, and run various errands. We never drive locally for no reason and always look at public transport possibilities but sometimes you just have to use it.

Most of the traffic in London is ubers and delivery drivers in any case

How many actual poor people can afford to run a car in London? The insurance alone costs a bloody fortune. We got rid of ours because it was too expensive and usually quicker/easier to get on the bus once we had DS.

Yes it might hit people who have to drive for their job, but the majority of those people will not be poor. Most carers I know use public transport (and I do know a fair number of carers, cleaners etc who work out of other people’s homes). A lot of couriers and delivery drivers round here either walk or use mopeds (because there is no parking). The only people I know who use vans are tradesmen, and they are not poor. Not London-rich, but then neither am I and I’m a doctor.

I used to live off old street roundabout - I’d see all these cars going (slowly) last with just a single driver in and think ‘why the fuck are you driving yourself through central london’

We need to make a change