To think that racial diversity in film casting has gone slightly bonkers...

[AngeloMysterioso]

When you have an Asian actress playing Bess of Hardwick?

I just can’t see why anyone thought it was appropriate to have such a prominent woman in English history being played by somebody who is Chinese- can you imagine the outcry if an important black woman was being played in a film by someone who isn’t black, or indeed a significant Asian character being played by a white woman? There’d be uproar, and rightly so. And yet, in the new Mary Queen of Scots film we have a white Englishwoman being played by Gemma Chan.

This Chinese author/blogger said pretty much the same thing, pointing out that when Ed Skrein was cast as a fictional Japanese character in Hellboy the public response was so furious that he ended up quitting. And Bess of Hardwick isn’t even a fictional character, she was a very real woman, an ancestor of our current Queen, whose life and legacy are quite remarkable.

I don’t want anyone to think that there is any racism behind this post at all. I think Gemma Chan is a fantastic actress, but I don’t know, there’s just something about it that reeks of tokenism.

Taco lover as a black woman I completely agree with your posts and wish I could articulate my thoughts as eloquently as you do. Oh and I know too well the feeling of that excitement my teen daughter and I get when we see a brown/black person on tv/films especially when portrayed positively. One has to live it to get the proper gist I suppose.

About the DNA thing, its true and just coming out with widespread testing that the Roman, Saxon, Viking and Norman invasions actually had much less effect on Britain genetically than previously thought.

My mother at a very rough area state school used to teach her pupils how to speak correcting. May be we could make sure state schools teach received pronunciation which might help ensure there are more actors from lower income families.

Yes, Patroclus is right that those invasions had a minor impact on the British. My DNA is about 56% Scotland/Ireland. 42% rest of GB and 2% Swedish. As I have reddish colouring and freckles I am probably about 3%+ Neanderthal genes too. We are all connected of course and all from Africa originally. I have been doing my family tree - just back to about 1700s on all sides and not found anyone who was other than very poor and secondly who was not from here - what a boring lot. I received the death certificate I bought of a "mariner" (sailor) ancestor who died in Sunderland in 1844 and his wife, on Friday. I think he probably married in Whitby in the 1700s so I suppose he moved counties.

Caucasian actors have been playing ethnic characters for years. Just that they're was no empowerment or social media for minority audiences to complain. Now that audiences have noticed and making films flop, the film industry responds in this way. I can see why tokenism is the new approach.

Jesus wept, people don't really know much about Shakespeare.

His plays were never 'historically accurate' even as he wrote them. He made stuff up. All the time.
And all the parts were played by men. So any female actor in a Shakespearean play is historically inaccurate. Theatre is not, and never has been, about realism. It's about ideas and it's about humanity. Of course PoC should be fully represented and of course they should be able to play any part. Audiences are expected to suspend disbelief all the time, it really should not be a stretch to deal with colour blond casting.

Eg in Vera, a very good detective series from my area - Northumberland - they have a very unlikely number of non white actors in it but the story line is good enough to make you just momentarily think - ouch, that's unlikely, why stuff this PC stuff down my throat - and then you just carry on watching.

I think the bigger issue with Vera is that we’re expected to buy 70 year-old Brenda Blethyn as a serving DI.

Given the increasing retirement age cough that’s just a case of looking into the near future.

Good point. It is a bit PC and non representative to have an older woman in that role in that area I think although we have Cressida Dick leading the met in London.
I just looked up detective chief inspector norhtumberland and got to this sex pest chap - so nothing new there - male of course....

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/revealed-staggering-cost-rid-sex-13421433
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/12/top-cop-sacked-twice-groping-claim/

This chap is not female www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/16116560.New_chief_for_Northumbria_Police_announced/

There is a large body of Public History research into history knowledge amongst the general public and where they draw their information from. No need to ‘estimate’ or guess and not really much to do with their intelligence, either.

As an allegedly 'trained historian' surely you know that the first rule hammered into 1st year undergrads is that claims need to be supported by appropriate sources.

Can you point me in the direction of a source that people consume costume drama as fact and use that as rhe primary basis of their historical understanding?

Do you find that way of speaking to people usually charms them into doing your legwork for you? It’s not even difficult to find.

Do you find that way of speaking to people usually charms them into doing your legwork for you? It’s not even difficult to find.

You made the claim, you provide the evidence. Thats how it works, as you well know, or should know.

Taco lover as a black woman I completely agree with your posts and wish I could articulate my thoughts as eloquently as you do. Oh and I know too well the feeling of that excitement my teen daughter and I get when we see a brown/black person on tv/films especially when portrayed positively. One has to live it to get the proper gist I suppose.

Thank you. It bothers me that white people think they get more say on the representation of POC than actual people of colour. They'll never understand how weird it feels to look at a screen and never see yourself.

Taco, I have in some countries - I worked briefly in Nigerai, put the TV on in the hotel room. Just about every channel was people who were not white. I've watched TV in Iran on business there and I didn't see a lot of people looking like I do either.

however I am certainly in favour of trying to make sure programmes and ads show all people in the UK although not giong over board so we cannot enjoy the programme because it becomes utterly ludicrous. the constant black female vicars etc that that poor author of the rural detective series had to put in just make the programme a laughing stock - Midsomer murders. www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12748293

I worked briefly in Nigerai, put the TV on in the hotel room. Just about every channel was people who were not white.

That was a strange Nigerian hotel. The decent ones usually have BBC news and/or CNN, Eurosport and M-NET channels, amongst others.

I am certainy not an expert on Nigerian TV. That was the channel I watched. However perhaps I just went on that one was it was interesting. I was certainly looking for as I do wherever I go something local rather than boringly international.

That was a strange Nigerian hotel. The decent ones usually have BBC news and/or CNN, Eurosport and M-NET channels, amongst others.

Well just as in the UK one can watch TV channels from all over the world (and not see a white European all day) , but we are talking about diversity of ethnic representation in domestically produced content.

Xenia, funny you say “international”ie global viewing. Yes you can dress it up as boring but nonetheless international tv. And that actually accentuates the point that major international broadcasting is not particularly representative of global diversity.

"And all the parts were played by men. So any female actor in a Shakespearean play is historically inaccurate. "

The parts were only played by mean because women weren't allowed to. I think many of us would find it preferable for a character to be portrayed by an actor of the same sex, even if swapping it occasionally can be interesting.

yes, the only point I was making is what do we try to represent - Nortumberla 97% white, where I live 37% white, UK 82% white or planet 12% white? The BBC has news channels which I sometimes see in hotels for people abroad which obviously cover much more news in Singapore, Africa etc than you would get if you were just watching BBC standard news in London.

At the end of the day most ads and programmes presumably put into the shows what sells tickets or the products being advertised.

@Twittowho But, there’s zero chance that a black woman could ever have been The Queen of England....so wouldn’t it be an absurd characterisation?
What about Queen Charlotte?

Yes well going on holiday to somewhere temporarily is not somewhere that you have lived your whole life as a citizen and feel is your home, Xenia. Racism for me also plays a big part in me wanting to feel represented in the media; when people tell me that I don't belong here, what I want is to see myself belonging; present in British films, British television, British adverts. These things represent the people belonging in the UK and it may sound silly to you, but I want to feel as if I belong.

And saying 'well I'm white and I wasn't bothered when I didn't see myself represented ONE TIME in a country where I don't live and feel is my home anyway therefore it doesn't matter' is the perfect example of white people chiming in on POC giving their experiences and trying to make it seem as if they have experienced the same thing. Going to a place one time and not seeing yourself represented, in a place where there is also no racism towards you, is nothing in comparison to the situation myself and other POC have described. If you went your entire life seeing no white people in the media instead of just one time on a business trip and you experienced people telling you that you don't belong in the country you live in, the lack of representation might start to bother you too.

But no, please continue to tell us all about how you know what it feels like and how it doesn't bother you. Us POC will just shut up and stop complaining about nothing, shall we?

Hear hear @TacoLover.