AIBU to ask what you think poverty is?

[Rayn]

In a way this follows on from the 'did you
Grow up poor' thread. Just been on the news that on average a third of all children in my region are in poverty. When I think about the children in my son's class it makes me sad. I can think of one or two maybe but a third??

I just wondered what is classed as poverty in today's world in the uk.
Food, clothes, the basics?

Poverty is when not having money costs you money. It’s having to repeatedly buy the cheapest or smallest of something, when buying one step up would last much longer or have much better economies of scale, but you just can’t pull that money together. It’s not being able to save up a tiny bit to deal with a small unexpected bill so you end up paying late charges when those things inevitably happen

I found this really enlightening
Thank you

"A child is said to be living in poverty when they are living in a family with an income below 60% of the UK's average after adjusting for family size."*

That's a nonsense statement, it's what they do with their income that matters. We all know that there are many families who are wasteful and whatever they had would spend it badly. There are others, with the same income, who spend it better and make attempts to control their spending, cutting down on the unnecessary things.

You could take every penny in the country, divide it equally and within a month there would be vast differences because of people's priorities.

The only ones for whom I feel sorry are those who are making an effort to manage but finding it hard. Other than food, somewhere to live, clothing what's considered essential, Sky TV, top-of-the-range phones etc ? Interesting to know what other consider essential.

To me be poor in the UK should be an absolute definition. Not being able to afford the necessities of life like water, food, heating, clothing and shelter. Everything else is just a sliding scale of how well off you are.

For me, it's about never being sure where the money for food/rent etc is going to come from. Always worrying about scraping by. Panicking when something happens like a hole in a shoe, a bulb going out, pay being delayed by one day etc. Just not being able to pay for basic things that you need in order to survive.

We're far from rich now, but not having to think about how I'm going to pay rent, buying shoes etc is heaven.

I still hate having empty cupboards though and I always have lots of food in the pantry.

" Sky TV, top-of-the-range phones etc ?"

I don't know how much a TV package is these days but if you compare it to eg going out to the cinema etc, it will still work out a hell of a lot cheaper.

When you are constantly struggling, buying luxury things is one of the ways people soothe themselves and make themselves feel better. I have also been poor and I've also just thought 'fuck it' sometimes and bought something way out of my budget. It may seem illogical and stupid and wasteful, but when you never have money anyway, what difference does it make? That's how it feels. It's like 'whatever' because whether I spend it or not, I'll still be poor.

Plus, there is a lot of shame around poverty. People want to buy things to show they are not poor to alleviate the shame. Again, it might seem illogical, but not everything people do is logical.

Relative poverty - when you’re on min wage and your colleagues have a spectrum of higher wages.

You are the one who can’t go to the Xmas party etc as your wage is too low for you to afford it in comparison to other colleagues.

So a bit like society, if you’re the lowest paid then you have less oppotunities than others to do anything more than the basics, sometimes even struggling with those.

dead but absolute and relative poverty BOTH matter. When everyone around you has more than you, you are left out of a lot of things, your children miss out on experiences, you can end up very isolated.

You might have a roof over your head and enough food, but knowing that you can't afford to further your child's education, to provide things like books or theatre trips, to buy them clothes that don't mark them out as poor is really burdensome.

It shouldn't be ignored.

According to that government figure I am poor as after paying the rent we have £300 a week for everything else (me and 3 children). I know I struggle with things like shoes breaking but I wouldn't say we are poor in the terms I see it. My children don't go to clubs or have ipads but we manage to eat and heat the house. Foods not always the best but they aren't hungry. I wish I could make it healthier for them but I am training taking qualification at work to make things better. I just dread universal credit being rolled out as I think things are going to get much harder.

donthug I'd say that if you struggle to replace shoes, that is poverty. We live in a highly developed country, no one should be grateful that they are able to eat and use the heating. We should be aspiring to more than that as a country.

@Hisaishi true but I see my circumstances as a result of bad decisions i have made. Having children with someone who does whatever he can to not pay maintenance. Not doing better at school or waiting until I had a decent career to have them. I know they deserve better but I'm the one who put us here.

donthug I don't think it matters what the circumstances are, or what they're a result of, really.

We've all made shit decisions, sometimes it turns out well, sometimes not.

You don't need to beat yourself up. No one knows what the results of our decisions are going to be.

I feel like our household is in poverty because our rent is so high and theres nothing we can do about it. We pay the bills and just about get by. I skip meals to ensure my baby and husband eat. I feel weak and tired all the time. Im not homeless so im thankful but i know many people like me. Have relied on food banks and clothing charities etc