AIBU to ask what you think poverty is?

[Rayn]

In a way this follows on from the 'did you
Grow up poor' thread. Just been on the news that on average a third of all children in my region are in poverty. When I think about the children in my son's class it makes me sad. I can think of one or two maybe but a third??

I just wondered what is classed as poverty in today's world in the uk.
Food, clothes, the basics?

@DDIJ but is relative poverty meaningful? For instance. If you measure my wealth relative to millionaires I am definitely living in relative poverty. But if you measure my wealth relative to people living on minimum wage then I am not. Relative poverty doesn’t mean anything. You can’t take a person living in relative poverty and say with any certainty what they do and do not have on that fact alone. It’s pointless unless you are playing envy politics. The only way to give the word poverty any meaning is to give it a clear defenition.

Having a fiver to feed your family for the week, not having a store cupboard, literally that fivers worth of food - and no food banks in that day and age

Stealing your neighbours milk off their doorstep so your kids can have breakfast

Having one lightbulb for the whole house and moving it from room to room as you cannot afford replacements

No luxuries like phones, internet, sky tv. Basic three channels and sheer boredom when the kids are in bed cos you canot afford any entertainment, magazines etc.

Go bed early to avoid using electricity

Ripping off catelogues so you can clothe your kids

Collecting every single coupon for a few pence off items in the shop

Commiting crime so you can feed your kids

Sitting in the dark when the electric runs out / sitting in cold when gas runs out

Sharing baths, only running the washer when it is at capacity

Moving house and leaving mountains of bills that you cannot pay

Having the bailiffs come round, and they leave with nothing as your entire house contents are not worth the £300 council tax bill

Feeling like shit when your parents buy your kid an expensive toy for Christmas, but what your kid really needs is a coat and shoes that fits..but your fucking stupid parents are too blind to notice that they are delivering a £200 toy to a freezing house with no food

Working three minimum wage jobs, and still not cutting it

Value brand everything. The cheapest of the cheap. The tins of beans that are more water than beans.

Sending your kid to school with the shittest packed lunch with bread that is past its best with dry edges, and something like a boiled egg, as that is all there is

Going hungry so your kid can eat

Feeling a failure

Not being able to buy food, afford bills, pay debts, buy clothes...

Absolute poverty: Not being able to meet your basic needs for food, shelter clothing and warmth.
Relative poverty: Income of less than 60% of the average.

You need to know the rate of both to get a clear idea of what's going on in a society.

that is a weird, weird statement re child playing on a beach

Absolute poverty is about literally going hungry and lacking access to the basics like adequate housing and clothing. That is happening to children all over this country and it should be more of a source of national shame than it is.

Relative poverty is about lacking any access to the opportunities and resources of the average child or family. If you don't have holidays or money for party gifts then this still means you are poor in relation to others.

Absolute poverty is more extreme, relative poverty still holds children back and causes disadvantage and stigma.

flowertoday
Thanks for a clear explanation.

Not being able to afford to pay for the basics of life -

Rent/Mortgage
Water
Council Tax
Food
School uniform
Clothes

All the above are mandatory bills or expenses, you have no choice but to pay for them, or get into trouble not doing so, end up homeless, bailiffs and sanctions on education, social services involved if you don't feed children, or illness if you don't feed yourself.
I deliberately didn't include gas and electric because if like me you're on a meter and you don't have the money, then you can't have the fuel. Though you still run up a daily standing charge bill that is taken from your next top up.

I've been in this situation, the winter of 2010 when we had a lot of snow, with a 7 year old. Sold the TV and anything of value to buy gas to stop pipes freezing, I was working as well. It was so soul destroying, I was kept afloat by pooling resources with friends and by taking left overs home from work.
The reason? I missed ONE council tax payment because I couldn't work because school was shut due to the weather. Council demanded full payment for the year in 7 days or bailiffs. Well bailiffs it was. Forced into a ridiculous payment schedule by bailiffs, even they didn't want my stuff because it would have cost more to remove than it would have fetched at auction. Finally got some help and got it all manageable but it was the scariest time of my life.

I think the impact of poverty kicks in above the levels where people are homeless or using food banks. It’s an absolute disgrace in a country as rich as ours that families are bringing children up in bed and breakfast hostels without cooking facilities. It’s appalling when temporary housing means children have to move schools frequently and when they are most vulnerable.
Poverty is having to use payday loans and expensive credit. It’s having to buy poor quality frozen foods because fresh fruit and vegetables are too expensive. It’s about borrowing five pounds from your parents to top up the electricity - or indeed having to top up the electricity rather than pay by direct debit. It’s not filling prescriptions because you can’t afford to. It’s pretending your child doesn’t want to go on school trips or turning down party invitations because you can’t afford a present.

Definitely absolutely poverty is being unable to afford basics, relative poverty leaves you left out as you can't participate in what are considered normal activities- parties, trips out, clubs for kids etc. Social exclusion is a huge issue and perpetuates poverty of one sort or another in many cases. I've been so skint I took a toilet roll from a university toilet and used my money to buy an onion and a parsnip from the local greengrocer. That way I could eat that night and wipe my bum rather than choosing. When DS1 was small I had no running hot water, heating or washer. It was December. The landlord didn't care and we were in debt anyway. I had to wash clothes in the bath with a small amount of hot water added if we had electricity. They were always musty as we couldn't dry them quickly. It was awful and I'm so glad I escaped that life. To think it still goes on is horrifying.

@AiryFairyUnicornRainbow

www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/universal-credit-rent-appeals-christmas-2283930

www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/universal-credit-christmas-late-payments-2289868

I started the growing up poor thread and it’s really had me thinking about what it means to actually be poor.

I think one way to look at it is insecurity. Like other posters have mentioned, poverty can be relative and if you aren’t secure in the basics whether you are earning £15k or £50 then life must be difficult.

I considered myself badly off but then I read about people on the thread saying the remember growing up with no food, no electricity and no new clothes. It sounds horrific and it’s so sad to think of children today living like that still. As was evident, there seem to lasting, lifelong consequences to growing up as a child in a deprived home, even if you’re circumstances as an adult aren’t the same.

Not being able to afford the basics ie rent/morgage , bills , not having enough food to eat, we are not rich , dh is inna monimum wage job and i care for our severly disabled child, but we have a warm home(albeit council) decent clothes , pleanty of food, we try and have a holiday once a year(caravan type place) we have days out and buy xmas and birthday presents and run a car we are far from in poverty

Stealing is not the answer. That will mean that another child will suffer.

Poverty is working a 40 hour week and not being able to pay for the basics - rent, utilities, food, clothing, childcare etc.

In any case, many of the most deprived places in the UK are coastal (Jaywick, Blackpool, some parts of Wales.)

Having a small amount of food, a few euro electric and still 3 days until pay day. I haven't been homeless but I have been hungry.
We are stable now, both working not on great pay but the rent and bills are paid and the oil tank is half full. I feel very lucky now.

Inadequete housing, food and clothing. Insecure housing in particular. Just not quite fully taking part in society.eg getting a party invite as a child and not going as you are embarressed tgat a card and token gift would mean sacrificing a necessity, or knowing your parent wont hsve money fir mufti day and supply a random specialist item day and wear an egyptian costime day all in one week.

Technically we live in poverty but our standard of living is good. I take the benchmarks used with a pinch of salt.
Povery to me means not having money to cover the basics of rent/heating/food.

I grew up poor so understand what it's like. I can't believe some children are still suffering. Sometimes it's hard to know if a child is in poverty or parents are misguided. There is a child at school, mum left the kids with dad and. He is clueless. The daughter comes to school in pouring rain without a coat and is always unkempt. He does not pay for school trips and the kids don't attend parties.
However, he has just bought a puppy and I find this really hard to get my head around.
I always thought they struggled but maybe some children live in poverty due to parents spending on the wrong things!

AiryFairyUnicornRainbow 💐