AIBU to ask what you think poverty is?

[Rayn]

In a way this follows on from the 'did you
Grow up poor' thread. Just been on the news that on average a third of all children in my region are in poverty. When I think about the children in my son's class it makes me sad. I can think of one or two maybe but a third??

I just wondered what is classed as poverty in today's world in the uk.
Food, clothes, the basics?

AiryFairyUnicornRainbow

That sounds like a good portion of my childhood. As a child I knew it was shit... As an adult I've really come to respect my mum for keeping it together, at least on the surface, and having the resilience to fight through the 10 years our lives were like to to eventually come out of the other side.

I hope if your post is speaking from experience it is one that is behind you

To me poverty is when you can't afford the basics to function properly/ normaly as a human being. So no or little heating, no proper winter coat, holes in shoes, no money for new glasses or hearing aids, no money to go speak to the doctor (I'm not in U.K.), no proper food at the end of the month.

Last month I found out that One of DDs schoolfriends slept in the same bed with his mother, teenage sister and younger brother.
There was a hole in the roof in the corner of the room that had been there since June. Rain etc just dropped right through.
The landlord wouldn’t do anything about it and Mum was scared to make a fuss in case she had to move and couldn’t find anything near enough to her work and school.
One of the children has significant learning difficulties and she’s terrified of having to move schools now that he’s started to thrive.
We live in London so significant poverty exists cheek by jowl with those of us who are luckier.
I was still shocked to the bone though. I had no idea they were living in those conditions and only found out when DD told me after she’d visited.

I’m horrified. There’s no excuse for that kind of poverty for someone in work in England. Our politicians should be made to hang their heads in shame.

The official poverty line in 2018 for a couple with two children is having an income of less than £493 a week after housing costs.

www.childrenssociety.org.uk/what-we-do/policy-and-lobbying/child-poverty/poverty-line-calculator

Also, beware of thinking that "absolute poverty" is different to "relative poverty". It is when the international definition is used but the definition that the Uk government uses is very similar to it's definition of relative poverty.

In Britain it's mostly relative poverty, it's people living below a certain income level defined as a percentage of average income. Of course that's not the whole story - kids can be in poverty despite on paper parents having higher incomes due to high outgoings, with the reverse also true (especially due to very different housing costs). Absolute poverty should not be possible due to our benefit system, however people do slip through the net for various reasons. Working with the homeless has been an eye opener, but I quickly realised that here at least, the reality is the vast majority have very complex situations, it's not just about money - addiction and mental health problems being dominant.

Having a single basic candle lighting the room because there is no money for a replacement light bulb.

That was us a couple of weeks ago. The money always runs out before the end of the month.

I would not describe us as in total poverty though, we do things. DD especially gets to go to a lot of clubs and go away with them a couple of times a year. It's not easy and does take a lot of juggling, but we do it.

We have a biggish TV, (bought a few years ago, when we were both able to work) not the latest but the one before the latest console. We have the internet (in case you did not know this, it is needed to claim benefits, as it is all online now). We don't have sky, but we do have amazon prime. I do feel like I spend my life saying 'Sorry, but we can't afford that' to my children though. The gas ran out today and I did not realise we had used the emergency credit. I had a panic, but us the money put back for the electric to top it up. I hope the electric doesn't go before Sunday, because then the emergency will last until Tuesday, when I get child benefit.

DP works full time and I am disabled.

I know we lived in poverty before my parents became rich.

I broke my school shoes once, and my dad carried me to school barefoot and I had to get some black pumps out of lost property. We had to scrape change together for bread, milk towards the end of the month. Probably the last week. We’d do treasure hunts to the park and back, we thought we were playing a game but in reality every penny we picked up off that floor went towards feeding us.

When I got to year 4 my parents both qualified and their careers escalated massively so we were lifted out of poverty really quickly. They were teen parents, still at school and took it in turns to work, and study. My dad working 100 hour weeks so my mum could be a teacher, and she returned the favour so he could get his GCSEs and then study business and French.

The first part if this R4 programme is an interesting debate on poverty www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00017b6

Your rellies suck.

Just looked at the link posted above. A couple with two children living in poverty has less than £58 per day – that’s £15 each - after housing costs to pay for food, bills, childcare, transport, household items, clothes and other expenses like school trips or children’s activities.

Did the maths and yes, we are in poverty, as I suspected. We have around £52 per day left after housing costs. Actually, less than that, as I put in the amount we should be getting in benefits,not the actual amounts we do get after 'overpayment' and advance have been taken out, done the new sum and it is £46!

Im now a single parent again unfortunately and currently on maternity leave. Ive three DCs. According to the calculator we are living in poverty but I dont consider that we are. I always make lovely healthy food, we have gas and electric when we need and want it, my DDs have hobbies, they are all well dressed (not expensive clothes or anything) we eat out sometimes. I consider us to be very fortunate. Whether we are classed as poor or not I dont see it like that and my children have everything they need (not want lol)

Relative poverty: Income of less than 60% of the average. More specifically, 60% of the median. It is possible to have everyone on more than 60% of the median without the median changing, whereas if you try to move everyone to more than 60% of the mean, the mean itself will move upwards, so you are forever chasing your tail.

Poverty surely has to be more than purely the basics? If you can't participate in society at the most basic level, surely that is poverty - I'm thinking - you can feed yourself and have shelter, but you can't invite someone home because it's too cold and you can't have a cup of tea with them because you can't afford a cup of tea - so you're on outside because you can't do any of the things by which people bind themselves to society - surely that's poverty?

Not wanting to get up on Thursday because it's still a day till payday and it's all a battle.
Juggling between buying bread or milk.
Being terrified of the post and a knock on the door in case it's bailiffs.
Going without food so your kids can eat.
Driving on the Orange light worrying because you have to get to work and you can't afford petrol.
Feeling constantly tired ill or faint.
Holes in your shoes so wet feet at work.
Running out of gas and electricity and sitting wrapped in blankets with candles.
Having to wash in freezing cold water and wash your hair in it. Getting brain freeze.
Dreading your children saying they're hungry as dinner was a small portion of plain pasta and cheese.
Borrowing from provident to afford Christmas presents and sometimes hiding from the agent when she comes round to collect the money.
Insecurity.

Oh and stealing toilet roll from work.

In any income bracket people manage money differently, when I was still teaching we all had a rough idea of each other's salary, there were some who lived from one overdraft to the next. I know of families on similar low incomes who live totally differently.

on paper we live in poverty due to low income.

in practice we do not feel like it as bank of mum and dad has given a buffer of savings which I live on.

we are careful though as those savings have to last. (pay for a divorce and sort out who owns what of the flat) we do have a holiday every year. we do not do a lot of out of school activities. a couple of after school things that are relatively cheap. (£3.50 and £1 per week) we make choices to prioritise holiday. friends prioritise dance lessons and no holiday.

someone else prioritises better food and worse car and few activities.

savings mean that we are not up shit creek if something breaks. at least financially. disability makes it difficult to organise replacements.

we live in a two bed flat, with me sleeping in the living room and are stuck here due to marriage break up. which I would sort, but the disabilities of the children and my condition mean that there is no time to do anyting other than survive.

Thanks shepherdspieisminging I m no longer in that situation but I remember it well. So I try to understand parents and children at my school and be compassionate about their circumstances.
Can't believe we are talking like this in 2018. It sounds like 1892.

This is a topic which rather annoys/frustrates me as the western definition is very different to the global one.

Poverty is when you can’t afford to feed/shelter/clothe your family - when all of your income is going to those things. Not when you’ve bought a pack of cigs or a 6 pack first, or after you’ve paid £150 for a Christmas gift...etc

I recently saw a fbook post from a girl I went to school with - a single sahm living on benefits. It expressed her outrage that her (4 year old) son would wake up on Christmas and not get the iPad he desperately wanted 🤔 apparently the ‘system’ is terrible and needs to sort itself out!

😂🙈😂🙈

That’s poverty for you... no iPad on Christmas morning! I hope all of those children in Africa are packing ‘Christmas shoeboxes’ for the council estate kids of England!

• In all seriousness though, whilst there are some families who really do struggle despite the best efforts of the parent and really deserve help- there are a lot of parents who are entitled, selfish and irresponsible pieces of work. Who really don’t put their child’s diet over their packet of cigs or being able to pay for a nice day out over going for drinks on a weekend in town. It’s like donating money to third world counties when only £1.50 of your £5 actually makes it to the people who need it! If a kids got bad parents no matter how much help was given by the government it won’t make a difference!

I know this to be true- it’s rife!

Poverty is when not having money costs you money. It’s having to repeatedly buy the cheapest or smallest of something, when buying one step up would last much longer or have much better economies of scale, but you just can’t pull that money together. It’s not being able to save up a tiny bit to deal with a small unexpected bill so you end up paying late charges when those things inevitably happen.

Poverty is getting made redundant from a good sales manager job and having to wait 8 weeks for benefits.
Poverty is relying on benefits and your parents when you are 34 and training as a teacher.
Poverty is you and the kids piling into your double bed coz it's cold and there's no electric and you re all a bit scared.
Poverty is checking your bank account at one minute past midnight to see if your money s gone in.

Seriously?? Not having a holiday or gifts is poverty .... not sure most people in actual poverty with no home or heat would agree

I would have thought that if you cannot afford 1 weekend away per year at a campsite (borrowing the equipment needed from a friend) and a £5 gift for your kid on birthdays and Christmases then you probably are in poverty.