AIBU to be terrified by what David Attenborough has said?

[ArcheryAnnie]

He's just said about climate change ""if we don't take action, the collapse of our civilisations and the extinction of much of the natural world is on the horizon." He's not the only one saying this - it's now common currency amongst scientists, and indeed anyone paying attention.

www.theage.com.au/world/europe/civilisation-may-collapse-if-climate-change-ignored-attenborough-20181204-p50jzs.html?platform=hootsuite

There's no time left for pissing about. We've got to take radical action now. It isn't something that any of us can ignore.

And don't fly half way round the world to appear in front of the United nations to lecture them on the planet when you can do your very worthwhile lecture by video link and have a bigger impact.

This is what rewilding pasture land can look like:

www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jun/15/the-magical-wilderness-farm-raising-cows-among-the-weeds-at-knepp

If you want to save the world, veganism isn’t the answer:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/25/veganism-intensively-farmed-meat-dairy-soya-maize

2066 apparently.

online it’s an interesting one. Isn’t soya an absolute travesty for the environment? And it’s fed to a lot of imported beef

There is an Argentinian beef restaurant in our local town and its very existence pisses me off. Flying fucking grain feed beef into Scotland just feels utterly wrong!!

Time to stop breeding humans, how can anyone justify having more than one child?

Hypocritically, I agree - I had 2 and when I had my youngest (13 in a couple of weeks) the future wasn't nearly so bleak.

I doubt I'd have any if I were 25 today, not just out of a wider humanitarian interest but also self-interest. I don't like what the future looks like for my children.

I feel tetchy when people still talk about producing future taxpayers and funding pensions. Do they not read?

There is an Argentinian beef restaurant in our local town and its very existence pisses me off. Flying fucking grain feed beef into Scotland just feels utterly wrong!!

Obscene. Let's tax these people to the hilt.

Our consumerism is powerful

If we stop buying plastic crap from China, they WILL stop making it - that's capitalism

I'm doing a 'no buying in 2019' and I'm never going to buy stuff from that far away again

The reality is people in other countries, especially those dominated by the various nasty cults prevent women using birth control so the human burden is growing, leading to continual fighting. Iran/Syria/Yemen etc. All those starving babies in Yemen, which has already passed the limit of their food production, were produced whilst the war was raging

Plastic in the oceans killing sea life and now in the insides of humans, is mostly from third world countries where there is no rubbish collection (I have seen this in African countries).

I never had children as even 20 plus years ago I could see the writing on the wall and I have not seen the environmental destruction David Attenborough has.

I agree consumerism has a lot to answer for. And flying long haul. I know a lot of people who do the whole organic vegan diet, bamboo toothbrush, no mass-produced toiletries/cleaning products thing and then fly to the USA or Far East for a holiday which undermines the rest of it. It's just middle class posing and virtue signalling.

I think we all need to live much more communally and just get along and share. Don't have a house, car and a garden each, live in blocks of flats with a big shared garden/food growing area, share white goods between the residents rather than having one each, cook together to save fuel, share cars (& drive less). But people don't want to live co-operatively, we all want to have our own things and not have to share or wait our turn.

Tax aviation fuel. Stop subsidising one of the dirtiest industries and many frivolous trips.

The only way humans will survive is if they go back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle. Extremely small numbers are needed to avoid negative environmental impact and life tends to be arduous and short.

The human race existed in its many forms for tens of thousands of years, prior to us learning to farm, and we left virtually no trace apart from some stone tools and bones in caves. Nature can cope with us at these levels. Anything more and it tips the balance.

This entire predicament could be resolved by monetising pollution and not necessarily taxing, but costing things properly.

Governments don't really have the political will to deal with the fallout of expensive stuff.

Unfortunately, the reason that people think they can afford 2,3,4 children is because they've come to believe that stuff is much cheaper than it is in actuality, because it's all being produced in an unsustainable way.

The reality is people in other countries, especially those dominated by the various nasty cults prevent women using birth control so the human burden is growing, leading to continual fighting. Iran/Syria/Yemen etc. All those starving babies in Yemen, which has already passed the limit of their food production, were produced whilst the war was raging

This is true. An extraordinary country and civilisation, destroyed.

Yeah people are always going on about how expensive food is

Less than a hundred years ago it was over 30% of our income

It needs to be much more expensive - which is very unpalatable to say

Meanwhile, he flies all over the globe making documentaries and does public appearances and talking tours that require him to enlarge his carbon footprint way beyond that of your average Joe.

Bit like the irony of the Earth Summits that were attended by heads of state who all flew there in their private aircraft. [slow clap]

Flying for tourism has a far bigger impact on climate change than flying for business. Although businesses could also do more to reduce it - especially nowadays when video conferencing technology is much better than it used to be.

www.independent.co.uk/environment/tourism-climate-change-carbon-emissions-global-warming-flying-cars-transport-a8338946.html

I was in the Philippines this year. The country is absolutely full. Full of children having children. Children everywhere. Poverty everywhere, but they are Catholic. The exist to have children.

There's been mass extinction events before. We can only hope that the next one will completely wipe human beings out, then the planet will have the opportunity to heal and recover.

Bet that’s what organisms used to say about Cyanobacteria.

The problem is imo not so much the birth rate, particularly in the developed world, but the fact that people are living so long. If we stopped having children, we will be left with a very elderly population and few people to support them. To put it very bluntly, we need to stop trying to cure everything.

Mass tourism destroys the planet.

We all subsidise it, while trying our best with resusable coffee cups and the lot.

It’s so frustrating.

Yeah because the politicians are so excellent at listening to what people want

No, they're rubbish at listening to people want. But you can change things with activism. I have. I had an idea with a small bunch of people and we impacted real change. (Not going to out myself here and say what).

If we all put that kind of effort in to changing government, then yes we could. They are only people, not some mysterious, untouchable force.

If we say - oh there's nothing we can do, well then, there will be nothing we can do.

If we stopped having children, we will be left with a very elderly population and few people to support them. To put it very bluntly, we need to stop trying to cure everything.

I agree with you and think broadly, we've gone beyond maximising quality of life and have delved into maximising years which is nonsense.

But the risk of our childbearing dipping below what we actually need, to the point where having children could be considered a positive, is absolutely nil.

Automation is displacing employment at warp speed (I recently went to Gatwick and was gobsmacked - something like 90% of the pre-security operation has been automated - it's an almost human-free experience) and reproduction is a basic human instinct.

I'm another who isn't especially subject to the need for my great great grandchildren to enjoy the planet. They'll get the planet humanity collectively deserves, and right now that's a poor one.

You only need to read some threads to hear the pitifully stupid responses about consumption, "Mind your own business", "How does it affect you if I shower twice a day and replace my bedding weekly because I'm too precious to withstand perfectly normal human secretions" yadda yadda.

Humanity has a few bright individuals who've dragged the rest into civilisation, to find that they're too civilised, and will happily destroy the planet in their pursuit of naice things and smelling 'fresh'.

I think we'll leave interesting archaeology for some future species to interpret. (this is another reason I'm blase about the eradication of humans - whilst we're the apex predator, there will be no interesting evolutions on the grand scale of the past - the planet will move on, and maybe the future will bring sabre toothed pandas or the octocat).

The inconvenient truth is that too many people are living too long. And there are too many of us.

monetising pollution and not necessarily taxing, but costing things properly.

Yes this is right. We need to price things to account for the cost of disposing of them in a sustainable way.

The only way humans will survive is if they go back to a hunter gatherer lifestyle.

I disagree. We will need to change our lifestyle. We can limit the worst of climate change for many and still lead enjoyable lives by reducing carbon footprints. I would still enjoy my life not flying, eating lower carbon foods, consuming much less. Or we can still live high energy lives with nuclear and renewable energy.