AIBU to be terrified by what David Attenborough has said?

[ArcheryAnnie]

He's just said about climate change ""if we don't take action, the collapse of our civilisations and the extinction of much of the natural world is on the horizon." He's not the only one saying this - it's now common currency amongst scientists, and indeed anyone paying attention.

www.theage.com.au/world/europe/civilisation-may-collapse-if-climate-change-ignored-attenborough-20181204-p50jzs.html?platform=hootsuite

There's no time left for pissing about. We've got to take radical action now. It isn't something that any of us can ignore.

@howtobehuman every study will tell you a plant based diet is best for the environment.

@Gaspodethetalkingdog the amount of soya grown for humans is inconsequential, only 6% grown worldwide is for human food products, if you don’t take into account vegetable oil (which I agree we need to limit) and 70-75% is fed to animals.

www.ucsusa.org/global-warming/stop-deforestation/drivers-of-deforestation-2016-soybeans#

I think I spotted a couple of -dinosaurs- climate-change sceptics upthread.

I'll just leave this here for them: www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46462014

#ArcheryAnnie This should not come as a surprise.?! The signs are clear:
Anyone who cannot see we are on the edge of destroying this planet and wiping out the natural world is frankly an IDIOT.

Humanity will probably cling on for quite some time, even after wildlife are gone and the food chain has collapsed if it makes you feel better.

But don't think we can stop it. We are raising a generation even more blind and careless than we have been. Optimism in the face of such an obviously forgone conclusion is what got us into this mess and optimistic people with faith in the next generation to 'sort this out' are deluded.

The decisions affecting this planet and our future are not made by us, or politicians, they are made by big business. Big pharma, chemical industry, weapons industry, fossil fuel companies and other big businesses. They'll allow no interruption to their mission to make money and are prepared to wring every drop of life out of the planet because they are mostly run by psychopaths.

I'm sorry if this is new to you, it must be a terrible shock.

I think the biggest culprit of what he's on about is the USA and big business. Unless they start to clean up their act, anything we do in this country is pretty much useless.

Agree

I also agree that animal waste products are necessary for soil fertility - nature used to be in balance, but we have unbalanced it. We should be looking certainly at a more vegetable based diet - but that doesn't necessarily mean no meat at all. It would be better to eat less meat and raise animals in as natural and certainly as kind a way as possible - not shut up in sheds, force fed chemically adulterated food, force bred in tiny cages - FFS - give them a good life and as easy a death as possible- they deserve that!

The huge central abattoirs that exist nowadays aren't kind to animals - many of which are transported in awful conditions for days - or for the people who have to wrk in them. It must be soul-destroying.

I can't understand people not caring what happens to the world as long as it happens after they're dead.

We have a responsibility to future generations. And every single one of us benefits at this very moment from the actions taken by people who knew they would never live to see what they were fighting for come into being. Many of them died in order to achieve benefits for future generations.

We owe it to them, too.

This was all predicted back in the sixties, but nothing much has changed , I don't think it ever will. The planet needs a fresh start and many more generations

*Not having kids should be a personal choice based on a desire for children and the ability to provide a stable, loving home, not part of a planet saving crusade!

The UK needs people to have c. 2 children per family to ensure population stability. If we all have no kids we’d have major problems. Look at Russia and Japan where this is becoming a major issue.*

People can be imported from other places where there is a surplus via immigration. No one needs to have 2 kids/family.

The UK needs people to have c. 2 children per family to ensure population stability. If we all have no kids we’d have major problems. Look at Russia and Japan where this is becoming a major issue

They're having short-term economic issues because of the correction of the pension pyramid scheme.

It's true that a contracting/top-heavy population is painful, but is the solution really to have more kids? The obvious corollary, of course, being that they need to be looked after in 80 years.

With the rise of automation and general uncertainty of the future, I find it astonishing that people are still bleating on about taxpayers and pensions.

I agree. It’s Ponzi demographics.

Interesting article from the BBC

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46384067

We need to start looking at space stations/villages that can support about 20,000 people or less. That way we export people into space and move out into the universe. Perhaps then, in a hundred years time or so our descendants will ask their parents to go on a sightseeing trip to where granny came from on earth. If we go vegan then all the animals will need to be killed or will have to fend for themselves. Things won't get better unless radical action is taken. As for global warming, remove all power sources and cut population growth.

This has been on my mind for a long time. I think DP and I do alot already but I guess there is always more that can be done. As individuals we can all do our bit but nations such as India and China and the USA obviously need to do a great deal and that is the biggest challenge. To me capitalism seems like the biggest driving force that has caused rapid human consumption of resources on Earth with little regard to health of the planet but I don't see how we could replace capitalism with anything else. Is it possible to have a more mature version of capitalism that can respect the planet?

I think you are right about capitalism

All businesses - even ethical ones - are about making a profit by persuading us we need something.

Hence the misery of places like B and M.

Even Xmas.

I contemplated saying on my child’’s party invites that no presents are needed - or maybe a second hand book - but I know I would be ridiculed!!

Capitalism depends upon continuous growth which is ridiculous on a planet of finite resources. The only way capitalism can continue to work is with space expansion - then we cab run about ruining other planets too!

We have to find a better way. And at some point that means capitalism has to stop and everything change. Is that going to happen? Not if the guys on top can help it.

One of the reasons I think so many people have ignored this issue is because they don't want to be associated with the crusty looking environmentalist types who appear to be slightly on the edge of society. It needs to be more of a mainstream concern.

An American friend has just posted this on Facebook:

The Trump administration will reverse an Obama-era coal emissions rule as part of its effort to loosen restrictions on the coal industry, just days after a US government report warned that aggressive action is needed to curb greenhouse gases and ease the impact of global warming.

Also, Andrew Wheeler, the acting administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, is a former coal industry lobbyist. Classy.

formerbabe I've been thinking about your comment for a few days now. A bit flabbergasted really. Are we all so completely superficial that we only engage with really important topics if the presentation is right.
And then I thought about veganism, followed by people for years now, but completely mainstream now because of people like Gwyneth Paltrow and the instagrammable clean eating brigade, so I think you're right.

One of the reasons I think so many people have ignored this issue is because they don't want to be associated with the crusty looking environmentalist types who appear to be slightly on the edge of society. It needs to be more of a mainstream concern.

I think, actually, we can thank David Attenborough himself for the fact that this has shifted pretty dramatically in the past couple of years.

Obviously this will depend entirely on your personal bubble e.g. which news outlets you listen to, who you socialise with, which industry you work in, etc, but in my bubble people seem pretty switched on and concerned about this.

Just as an example, my Pilates studio has stopped selling water bottles because no one bought them, and the owner to switched from Dettol wipes to clean our mats to a rag with spray (I nudged her along). This is not a fancy studio by any stretch.

The only thing affecting the death of the planet is too many people. Not big or small businesses, not governments or dictatorships but population growth. Assume, a family unit, home, village, town, country and world are all the same in principle as the smallest part. Each has a fixed income and desires or needs similar things in food, clothing, possessions and a roof over their heads. With a fixed income forever, the growth in humans within those groups must be held a zero. If you calculate growth in line with universal percentages of births and deaths then the strain on each family unit increases proportionately. The only solution then is to sell possessions, make your own clothes and grow or catch your own food. As the years continue, individual lifestyles decrease for the worse. Tensions and stress rise, conflicts increase and those with very little will attack those with the most. The culling of 50% of the world's population might not be too popular, if you are the second person and laws may be violated but the seriousness of survival is more than just eating plants, vegetables, seafood or animals, it could eventually incur cannabilism in future times, which although abhorrent, remember the Andes plane crash. So now that we are about to leap into oblivion, who makes the first step backwards, think about it!

@Ated “ If we go vegan then all the animals will need to be killed or will have to fend for themselves.“

Not at all. The world won’t go vegan overnight. It’s supply and demand. This year the farmer breeds 100 turkeys but only 90 people buy them. Next year he breeds 90 turkeys but only 80 people buy them. That’s the very simplified version but basically less and less animals will be bred to be killed. Right now we kill 56 billion, nearly 10 times the amount of people on the planet, it’s incomprehensible.

@GodrestyemerrySchadenfreud

“I also agree that animal waste products are necessary for soil fertility - nature used to be in balance, but we have unbalanced it. We should be looking certainly at a more vegetable based diet - but that doesn't necessarily mean no meat at all. It would be better to eat less meat and raise animals in as natural and certainly as kind a way as possible - not shut up in sheds, force fed chemically adulterated food, force bred in tiny cages - FFS - give them a good life and as easy a death as possible- they deserve that!”

Animal waste products from livestock are not necessary- see freefromharm.org/sustainable-agriculture/beyond-manure-the-future-of-veganic-farming/

It will need a slow change but that’s how it will happen anyway.

We don’t need to keep breeding and killing livestock. We can eat plants and focus on restoring wild environments for wild animals and plants to thrive. So many species are dying out every year.

Kikisparks,
Of course, nothing happens overnight and everything takes time, but the things suggested are the ones that might have to be done in the long term to save the planet before it is too late. If you are in immediate peril you don't sit down and phone a friend. I'm confronted with pollution every day in my work. I've discussed the melting of land ice and snow along with rising temperatures for nearly 50 years when I read my first book about it. Nobody measures the depleting oxygen levels in the atmosphere and how long for breathable air to be available for us all. I don't really care whether people want to eat meat or plants, that isn't an important issue. It is whether there will be anything left for too many people to share.

@Ated but it is an important issue as eating animal products is one of the leading causes of climate change.

Except that you still animal products to be healthy. A lot of vegans have some issues with vitamin and mineral deficiencies esp vitB12.
Some people such as the elderly or people recovering from illnesses need a higher amount of proteins in their diet (in proportion) which is much more easily achieved with animal proteins.
The reason why developing countries are longing for ou r diet is because it’s condensed in nutrients, nutrients that they are finding harder to get with their ‘traditional’ diets.
It’s interesting for example that ‘traditional societies’(I’m thinking the hunter gatherers there) eatskme meat products in one form or the other. We do need it to live well and healthy.

The reality is that the biggest ‘culprit’ is red meat (mainly beef but also porc and lamb). As is dairy (so cheese and butter).
So maybe starting that would be a good idea.
So would be the development of other sources of animal proteins, insects.

@EtVoilaBrexit you do not need animal products to be healthy.