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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DS 13

61 replies

HippoEvans · 03/12/2018 19:33

DS is 13 and has been behaving badly for many years.

Main problems include;

  • refusing to follow any instructions
  • massive issue with control, everything has to be on his terms
  • very rude and aggressive to me and his Dad
  • has been violent in the past and we called the police (he didn't care or even bat an eyelid)
  • smashes his room up or our stuff if he is unable to find something quickly enough or can't find something immediately (I think this is anxiety) he has broken TV's, mirrors, thrown my vacuum cleaner down the stairs etc.
  • no common sense
  • inability to organise, plan or realise consequences
  • partaking in dangerous behaviours such as smoking, drinking and taking cannabis
  • Hanging around with older boys
  • Running away when things don't go his way (e.g we had turned the WiFi off so he decided to 'go to his friends house' in the middle of the night so he could go on his social media)

School.....

He thinks it's ok to storm out of school if a teacher tells him off or raises their voice.

We have met many times with school, and have agreed he possibly has a learning difficulty / problems with concentration and agreed to support him more in class. He has a 'personal profile' which is designed to inform all his teachers to maybe deal with him differently. This has not worked, he is now just seen as a problem and many teachers do not have the patience or tolerance for his disruptive behaviour (I don't blame them), so he is sent out of the class room.

He has spent a lot of the last year in Internal Exclusion but this has not proven to be an effective punishment so we met again with school who agreed it was a waste of time and that if he was being disruptive he could go and sit with his head of year instead.

He is still being sent to IE despite this and teachers are still shouting at him which is adding fuel to the fire.

He was supposed to be assessed by Ed Psych in September but failed to attend school on that day so the Ed Psych came and met up at home and we told her everything we were going through. We are awaiting her report.

We now have to meet with the Education Welfare Officer tomorrow and I just feel so unhappy and that there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I don't know what to expect or what to say. His younger brother DS2 who is 11 has 100% attendance so maybe this will go in our favour as hopefully we won't be seen as completely incompetent parents. DS2 has ASD but luckily he loves the routine of getting up in the morning and leaving at a certain time.

What we have done.....

All the usual stuff such as taking stuff off him, grounding him, rewarding good behaviour. We took him for therapy but he refused to open up so was pointless. Offered to take him to clubs, activities, shopping - he tells me he doesn't want to spend his time with either me or his dad. Nothing works.

He also refuses to attend any family outings which is really awkward as I just don't know what to say to my family (they are very old fashioned and just think I am a failing parent).
If you've made it this far, thank you for reading. I guess I am looking for advice or to hear from people who have been in any kind of similar situation.

OP posts:
Original poster
HippoEvans · 03/12/2018 19:33

Oops sorry I posted this in the wrong section

OP posts:
Shriek · 03/12/2018 19:41

Oh, so sorry for your situation! Sounds impossible!

When did he start these behaviours?

Original poster
HippoEvans · 03/12/2018 19:50

Thank you Shriek, he has always been defiant but seems to have steadily got worse since he was about 10. Things went really down hill when he went to high school at age 11.

OP posts:
Idontbelieveinthemoon · 03/12/2018 19:55

If the Ed Psych saw him in September I'd be chasing her report up and asking why it's taken so long (I appreciate that all school services are hugely oversubscribed and stretched but that's a long time to wait for a report). Have school referred your son to CAMHs yet for any sort of support or assessments?

I work with much younger children so have little to offer but a handhold, and hope that you find some way to help him through this.

mistywintermorning · 03/12/2018 19:58

Path of least resistance here mate, from a reformed teenage shit.

Don't punish, sanction or discipline. It won't work. Step back. Encourage school to do the same. If he ends up in isolation, so be it.

Press on with the other stuff but the priority is keeping you all safe and mentally sound.

Shriek · 03/12/2018 20:04

I would try to involve him heavily in something physical out of school, something affirming, something only for him, something that he would engage with...whether it be rugby, climbing, something involving reliance upon others and is very physical as many times a week as possible. He needs direction and physical outlet, no matter what else is happening.

Do you think there is anything like this he might go for? You know him better, what activities is he good at that might challenge and engage him.

I don't know so much about stepping back, he could cause a lot of collateral damage, and needs boundaries.

That was a valuable insight of hope there!

Original poster
HippoEvans · 03/12/2018 20:05

Thank you Wisty, Y

es we have completely backed off and in effect ignored all the shit.

He hasn't behaved any better really apart from he is not quite as vile or aggressive to us as usual. We realise the more we try and punish or sanction him the worse he is.

The thing is I feel a good parent should be 'doing something'.

Did you turn out ok then if you don't mind me asking? I am worried sick he will soon be expelled and getting in trouble with the police and eventually end up in prison.

OP posts:
Weneedhelpnow · 03/12/2018 20:07

Another parent here with very similar teenager and a sibling with ASD.

Educational Welfare Officer may should be supportive.

Have you had any input from CAHMS? Have you heard of pathological demand resistance, its a rare type of ASD?

Also worth wondering if he has ADHD.

Does he sleep? Sleep issues cause a lot of problems!!

Be good to yourself, get a counsellor if you can. Get help and advice from a parents support group.

Have a look at getting on a course for NVR - non violent resistance to help with the violence and aggression.

ThanksCakeBrew

Original poster
HippoEvans · 03/12/2018 20:08

Shriek

yes I agree I should be re-inforcing boundaries but he just tells me to F off when I try and be assertive.

I have suggested all sorts of stuff we can do together but he just looks horrified at the thought of spending any time with me. Similarly I have suggested activities without me but he just says its 'too much effort!'

OP posts:
mistywintermorning · 03/12/2018 20:10

If he's expelled, he is. I know that sounds like I'm minimising it and I'm not: it's just by and large it's out of your hands.

I'm a teacher Grin I'd question I turned out all right - eventually!

Here's some encouragement. None of it is evidence based, just my observations:

  1. It sounds like he has ASD to me - has this been looked into?
  1. Kids who are shits in their younger teens often turn it round later on. By contrast, I know a lot of angels who hit the high GCSEs and then rebel at sxth form, university or even later in their professional life.
  1. School just isn't for everybody. Some kids are nightmares at school and fine once they leave.
  1. No one should blame you: some kids are just difficult. If someone is judging you they are a twat (if that helps.)
  1. YOU ARE NOT A FAILING PARENT you are doing what you can (not much) in very difficult circumstances, give yourself a break.
Original poster
HippoEvans · 03/12/2018 20:26

Thank you so much Wisty - it;s so nice to occasionally feel a bit of hope! and glad you turned out so well!

WeNeed - thank you too. He struggles to go to sleep and then cannot get up in the morning. He will sleep for at least 12 hours on the weekend. I think anxiety does definitely play a part with school.

He was rejected from cahms as he was not a 'priority' and he was outsourced to a mental health nurse which was pointless as he refused to talk to her!

OP posts:
SexNotJenga · 03/12/2018 20:28

What does he do for fun?

SexNotJenga · 03/12/2018 20:30

And what are his strengths/good points? (I realise that may sound chippy of me, I'm not trying to have a go, I'm trying to understand what's going on)

Original poster
HippoEvans · 03/12/2018 20:35

Thanks SexNotJenga

He is not interested in any hobbies or activities, all he wants to do is hang around with his mates.

His strengths include extremely popular and streetwise, he can be protective over his little brother, he is good at art, although he refuses to apply himself. Sorry I can't think of anything else - that's pretty sad :(

Although just thought of something he has started seeing a girl (also 13) and her Mum texted me to say he's as 'good as gold' so presumably he remembers his manners at her house!

OP posts:
ZacPosenatemyhamster · 03/12/2018 20:43

You really have my sympathy. My DS12 is going through a tough time and we clash every day, which often leaves me in tears. You must be under so much pressure, I wish I had some advice to help. Sorry

SexNotJenga · 03/12/2018 20:47

Obviously I'm a random person on the Internet and have never met you or your ds, but it may be worth trying to exclude ADHD as a first port of call. It may be worth revisiting camhs services and make it clear that you want neurodevelopmental assessment, not a first-line mental health intervention. (neurodevelopmental sounds scary, but it means test for ADHD/ASD rather than looking at low mood or anxiety. Ironically, if course, many people with ADHD have those as well) I'm sorry to say this, but it is very probably worth your while investigating what services are in your area (because what we call camhs varies greatly from NHS trust to NHS trust) and how they interlink - many GPs are not completely up to speed with this so referrals don't always get to the right place (not trying to knock GPs here, considering the many thousands of different things they're supposed to try to keep up with).
I'd be very careful in how you try to 'sell' it to your ds, obviously. I'm guessing he doesn't feel proud of himself very often, and possibly fears assessments.

You say he's very popular - what are his friendships like?

SexNotJenga · 03/12/2018 20:48

Re: sleep. Obvious questions - does he ever drink energy drinks? Does he have a phone? What time does he put it away?

SexNotJenga · 03/12/2018 20:50

You say he's been behaving badly for 'many years' - can you remember when it started?

Shriek · 03/12/2018 20:54

Do you give him money, does he have a phone, internet access, etc? Remove it.

I wouldn't assume in any world he would want to do something with his DM! (No offence just teens!). I really meant something for him. He has to have bigger horizons than this, he seems to have nothing.

What activities was he involved in yoounger years that he enjoyed? He need engaging in something for him that he enjoys otherwise he sounds like there really isn't anything he's got for him. School and home just isn't enough for a teen.

I can't speak for any health issues, but something physical and disciplined would have health benefits anyway, physical and psychological.

Channel his energies. Get help from the school with suitable activities. Can you not think of anything that he likes?

There will be something...how is he around animals for instance?

What does his df do with him?

Original poster
HippoEvans · 03/12/2018 20:54

SexnotJenga - We are awaiting to see what the Ed Psych comes back with, we also have referral to a service called 'IScan' which is a collaboration of MH, OT, PT and other mutli-agency services so will see what they say.

Don't really get to meet his mates. He's very secretive and lies all the time. I think he is always the 'show off' and the 'risk taker' which is why he is so popular unfortunately. He tends to be quite fickle e.g he has recently met a girl who he is now obsessed with and doesn't appear to want to see his mates anymore.

OP posts:
Allthewaves · 03/12/2018 20:58

He sounds a handful. First thing that shrieked out at me was ADHD or ASD. Good job ed psych involved. Wouldn't my arm getting gp involvement too. If you havnt read up I'd look at ODD and PDA.

He could also be an asd/adhd combo

Shriek · 03/12/2018 21:06

I would be very worried about this girl tbh. He is acting extremely immaturely, controlling, abusive and cannot regulate himself. Yes, I'm sure he's charmed his way into her affections (hopefully that's all) but he sounds way too fast way too soon, especially as he's dropped his mates. Does he go to hers and are they left alone by her DM?
I am concerned about teen pregnancy knocking on your door.

Shriek · 03/12/2018 21:07

What has he ever been involved in that he's liked?

Original poster
HippoEvans · 03/12/2018 21:34

He is obsessive, but I would not say he is controlling or abusive??? He actually treats her very well, is attentive and supportive which is why she wants to be with him.

I don't think they are up to anything just yet. They are generally at hers and her DM is in the house and she came to ours over the weekend.

They stay in the same bedroom and I spoke to her mum who has said that she trusts her daughter, however, she has the depo injection to regulate her cycle so is covered 'just in case'

He used to do loads of stuff including martial arts and music but has no interest anymore

OP posts:
MsJudgemental · 03/12/2018 21:38

Look up symptoms of ADHD, ODD, PDA. Flowers