Am I being too harsh with 4 year old?

[NormanFuckingRockwell]

For the past god knows how long, bedtime has been a nightmare. I have to lay next to her until she falls asleep which takes between 45 minutes to 2 hours each night. In that time she'll ask for drinks, say she's hungry and generally makes any excuse to talk and prolong sleeping.

At the moment I've got lots of work on and I'm running on empty. My anxiety is through the roof and I'm really struggling. Tomorrow I was going to take her out of (non-compulsory) nursery to see Santa with a friend and her dd - I've paid for it in advance and it includes a sleigh ride and all that jazz. So for the past couple of nights I've used that as a way to get dd to sleep - it hasn't worked. She's so excited about going but still acts up at bedtime.

Tonight I said if she didn't go to sleep then we wouldn't be going. I've only just managed to get her to sleep. Aibu to not take her to see Santa tomorrow? Am I being too harsh?

Youre talking about a santa treat at bedtime ?? What did you expect ???!!!

My daughter was like this at the same age, when you're in it you think it will never end. But it does improve.

And no you can't not take her to see Santa, that would be beyond shit and likely be something she remembered for the rest of her life.

Don't make idle threats
Have you tried the supernanny technique for bedtime? Seems to work for her

Sorry to elaborate.

To go from being laid next to and talking excitedly and lots of requests for drinks etc to going to sleep immediately with no argument or talking is too big of a step. So it doesn't matter what reward you promise or threat you bring out, nothing is going to override that.

Bedtime sounds very exciting for her. If you are generally busy and stressed at the moment it might be a time she feels she gets your undivided attention which is really important for a 4yo (they are so full on though, I know). If you think about how long bedtime is currently taking, try to assign that amount of time but at a more convenient hour daily where you'll give her undivided attention, so that she's less likely to be seeking it at bedtime. Still that probably won't be enough on its own. It sounds like you might be a single parent? I was when I was dealing with this and it's SO HARD.

So you want to change one thing at a time. I'd recommend to pick one of these and go with that for now, then add one more at a time once she's settled with this new routine. IME each one of these changes will make a difference to you, anyway. You could add a small reward on waking up if it goes well, but if you make the changes small enough, you probably don't need to. Praise might also be enough. Get someone on whatsapp/FB to be your support person who you can text updates to - even if it's just a MN thread or whatever. You need to keep your sanity intact while you make changes.

• Rule of only one drink/snack to be chosen before bed. Preferably before tooth brushing (or only water after). At 4 she's old enough to understand "It's your last chance to eat, otherwise you have to wait until morning, remember last night you were hungry, do you want to eat something now?" No more going to get a drink/food, just let her take a bottle of water to bed or drink it downstairs before you go up.

• Mummy sits on the end of the bed or sits next to the bed and holds DD's hand rather than lying IN bed next to her. Increase the distance over time until you're outside the room.

• Mummy stays but only if there is no talking/fidgeting/eyes open (you'll have to judge your own DD's sleep cues here - for DS1 I had to stop him talking or fidgeting, but eyes open was fine and didn't stop him dropping off. Other DC will find that singing to themselves or rubbing their foot on the sheet is soothing etc). Remind her of the new rules and if she starts to do one of the banned things e.g. talking then remind her "No talking, sleep time" count calmly and quietly to 3 and if you get to 3 then get up to leave. She will cry and protest - ask her if she can lie still and quiet with no talking (or your rules) and if she agrees then come back. If you get a few repeats then say no, you've lost your chance for tonight, we'll try again tomorrow/later and leave the room. If she's very upset go back after 15 minutes or so (however long it takes to recharge your own energy/stamina!) and ask if she's ready to try again, or just reiterate "You have lost your chance for tonight, we'll try again tomorrow, night night, I love you"

• Mummy stays for maximum X minutes and then has to go because it's Mummy's dinner time. Reduce the time over time.

• Mummy goes but will come back every 5 minutes to check on DD. Slowly increase the time over time. Or tell her you're going to do a wee/poo/hang up the washing but you'll be back to check on her afterwards.

• Offer her an exchange e.g. an extra story if she doesn't need you next to her, or a story CD to be played while you go downstairs.

Good luck!

I actually disagree that your daughter is not tired completely. I feel that she is over tired and for babies and children who are over tired it is incredibly hard to get them to sleep.

I know you haven't asked for advice but I gently suggest that you move her bedtime backwards as counterproductive as that seems. Have a look in to getting over tired children to sleep. It actually gets easier as they start to get more sleep rather than harder.

The benefit for you apart from the extra sleep is that in moving her bedtime backwards your brain will be more prepared to accept the hard slog that you know you will go through getting her to sleep.

Good Luck, I hope you enjoy the Santa fun and that it gets easier for you.

Op, I don't know if it helps, and as said we went through hell to get ours to go to sleep at that age, stories, songs, the lot. In hindsight I think she didn't want to be left alone.

So maybe be upstairs but distance yourself, sitting on thr landing, in your room, whatever but so she knows you're nearby, and slowly increase the distance, maybe make it so she can hear you, singing a lullaby or something, and slowly start to decrease the time as well.

I'm wondering if she is an only child like mine is.

I feel your pain. It’s all too easy to end up threatening something you’re not sure about following through with, in the heat of the moment!
It sounds to me like you need to start some sleep training....
I would personally back down and take her - but not without a really good talking to before hand about how she needs to start going to bed without you!!
Good luck.... x

Please don’t feel like a bad mother! I could have written this! And I know how much worse it seems to get when you have masses on and NEED them to sleep quickly. For a while (when I was in a relatively calm and not busy place) I managed to get it so that DD was comfortable with me just clearing up her room while she went to sleep (I remember my mother doing this and I loved it and felt so safe - it kills me that I am not teaching my dd the same) and then I could tip toe out. That fell by the wayside somehow though. Have tried just letting her cry too. More than once. It sort of killed me and I had to drink wine. Didn’t help me feel like a better mother. I think save teaching her to settle herself until you have less on and try to use her bed time to have a nap yourself - it makes you feel awful but strong cup of tea when you wake up and you can catch up on a few things and hopefully she will chill out about bedtimes and relax - which is the only way to sleep isn’t it. I’m giving that a go. Dunno if it will work but I am too tired and stressed to try anything else.

Take it all back I am going to follow Bertie’s advice! When I have briefed husband and got a couple of good nights sleep that is.