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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Am I being too harsh with 4 year old?

84 replies

NormanFuckingRockwell · 02/12/2018 21:47

For the past god knows how long, bedtime has been a nightmare. I have to lay next to her until she falls asleep which takes between 45 minutes to 2 hours each night. In that time she'll ask for drinks, say she's hungry and generally makes any excuse to talk and prolong sleeping.

At the moment I've got lots of work on and I'm running on empty. My anxiety is through the roof and I'm really struggling. Tomorrow I was going to take her out of (non-compulsory) nursery to see Santa with a friend and her dd - I've paid for it in advance and it includes a sleigh ride and all that jazz. So for the past couple of nights I've used that as a way to get dd to sleep - it hasn't worked. She's so excited about going but still acts up at bedtime.

Tonight I said if she didn't go to sleep then we wouldn't be going. I've only just managed to get her to sleep. Aibu to not take her to see Santa tomorrow? Am I being too harsh?

OP posts:

Orlande · 02/12/2018 22:35

The Santa thing is too harsh. But, I do think you can be more robust about bedtime.

Put her to bed, say goodnight, and every time she gets up just return her straight to bed with no interaction.

StoppinBy · 02/12/2018 22:35

I agree with mortifiedmama however if you often make threats then don't follow through then I would be tempted to let this one slide then make a promise with your self that you must only say you will allow/not allow something if you intend to follow through.

I have missed out on things that I wanted to go to because I have told my daughter that if she did/didn't do X/Y/Z that she couldn't go and it really sucks but there is no point making the threat then not carrying through. They very quickly see right through you and call your bluff.

Deadringer · 02/12/2018 22:36

You shouldn't have threatened it but we all do foolish stuff out of sheer frustration. I would bring her to santa but you need to sort bedtime out. I tried sticker charts lots of times with my youngest who wasn't great at bedtime with no success until she was about 5. It was coming up to Christmas and I got a santa one, she loved putting the stickers on each night. I explained to her that she needed to be in her own bed with me out of the room so Santa could come and leave her presents. The sticker chart was for practicing each night in December leading up to the big day. By some miracle it worked, and by January the habit was broken.

JudasPrudy · 02/12/2018 22:37

At that age we basically control their whole lives so the bedtime issue is something you are doing wrong rather than a problem of her own creation. So YANBU to punish her at all for having trouble falling asleep.

OhComeOnRon · 02/12/2018 22:38

Don't be too hard on yourself OP.

I don't think you should threaten things you're not absolutely committed to following through. However, no Santa visit is harsh and I think the bedtime situation as gotten out of hand and your daughter can't be blamed for that.

I have a 4 year old too- I would be leaving her to scream bloody murder on her own after making sure she had what she needed. A cup next to bed and she can go for a wee and get back into bed herself there's no need to be there.

It's so hard and my daughter has tried playing up at bed time on occasion but she soon gets the picture that I'm not coming back up.

MyKingdomForBrie · 02/12/2018 22:38

You're a lovely mother. You adore your dd and she knows it, that's just the best thing you could give her as a mother. The rest will follow, she won't need your help to sleep all her life, it's just a phase.

I really like the coming back and checking on her idea, or if you are there respond to all talking etc with 'time to go to sleep DD' or similar.

MuncheysMummy · 02/12/2018 22:41

I understand why she can’t fall asleep on command, it takes me a long time to nod off but what I DONT understand is why you have to sit with her until she does?! I too was guilty of doing this with my little boy until he started talking reliably at around 20 months but once he could shout mummy or daddy and was confident we would come if he needed us he was fine being left in his cot awake after bedtime routine, took a gradual retreat over a couple of nights but that’s to be expected. Why on earth would you still be sitting with a child old enough to understand you when you say you are staying in bed and going to sleep, do not shout me unless it’s an emergency!

notangelinajolie · 02/12/2018 22:41

Let her see Santa. But you need to stop this laying down next to her until she is asleep. I actually think you are keeping her awake by doing this. Make sure she is tucked up in bed and leave the room.

dorisdog · 02/12/2018 22:42

It's too harsh imo, but not your fault or hers. Bit don't be harsh on yourself. You're tired. She can't sleep. It's rough. I had to lie down with my daughter for YEARS. I know how tiring and frustrating it is. They're all different and sometimes all the strategies in the world might not work :-/...and then just when you think you've solved one thing, some other issue crops up!!

Take her to see Santa and try to get some help and rest time. Good luck

Kleinzeit · 02/12/2018 22:43

Tonight I said if she didn't go to sleep then we wouldn't be going. I've only just managed to get her to sleep. Aibu to not take her to see Santa tomorrow? Am I being too harsh?

Too harsh, and no you don't have to follow through. You shouldn't make a habit of changing your mind, but you can do it now and again.

And sleep isn't really a discipline issue anyway, you can't force your dd to go to sleep and it wont harm her to stay awake when she's so excited. If you don't want to lie down with her then you could try this: settle her for the night and tell her to stay in bed and promise to come back in two minutes, then come in and give her a kiss and say you'll come back in three minutes, then repeat gradually stretching the time out to about 10 or 15 minutes. You can also use a nightlight and some peaceful music or a familiar story CD, playing softly in the background, if that will soothe her and help her relax. The most important thing is to keep her in bed and keep things calm.

Tatgalore · 02/12/2018 22:43

Yep too harsh.

I feel your pain, I'm still lying down with my youngest to get him to sleep.

Sick of it, but we made our beds, now we must lie in them. Or, sleep train.

But we shouldn't punish the children because they can't get to sleep.

TheChickenOfTruth · 02/12/2018 22:46

Think of it this way OP, she wants to spend time with you more than she wants to sleep. It's sweet really, if a little frustrating and tiring after a long day. But enjoy being her favourite person in the world for a while longer while you start working towards an easier bedtime routine.

Tatgalore · 02/12/2018 22:48

Just read your update. You're not an awful mother, it's fucking frustrating having to lie with your child might after night on their bedroom floor hoping they'll fall asleep quickly so that you can get some evening.

I keep thinking I'm going to nip it in the bud, but after years of poor sleep I'll do almost anything to get the boy to sleep.

Milly848 · 02/12/2018 22:55

Too harsh, and you'll ruin it for the other child too.

AnnaMagnani · 02/12/2018 22:59

Too harsh but your bedtime routine needs radical change.

You have unintentionally created a highly stimulating bedtime for her where she gets loads of uninterrupted mummy attention - why would she want to go to sleep instead of having that amazing time?

The whole routine needs to be calm, boring and much shorter. Kleinzeit has some great ideas.

MotherOfDragonite · 02/12/2018 22:59

The Santa thing is too harsh -- you've already promised it, so it wouldn't really be fair to take it away.

We had a lot of success with a reward chart with stars on it. I put a star on for every time she went to sleep by herself, and then whenever she had worked up to seven stars, she could choose a treat (I offered a couple of small things but she chose going out for hot chocolate with me). Six months later she had got into a good routine of going to sleep by herself and the reward chart was no longer needed.

We also started doing some different bedtime routines, with more calm things, including either a prayer or meditation/silence and a lullaby where I hug her.

wishywashy6 · 02/12/2018 23:00

Definitely too harsh.
Re the bed time thing, what happens if you just close the door and leave her to it?

SarfE4sticated · 02/12/2018 23:09

You have my complete sympathy OP, I would be at my wits end too. I think that she does need to go to see FC, but you can work on getting her to sleep after that.

Could you:

send her to grandparents for a sleep over so you get one good night's sleep
speak to her about what would make it easier for her to get to sleep (ask her in the morning or during the day)
work out a plan and tell DD (also during the day when you're in the park or similar)
Plan could be,

i) story in living room with pyjamas, warm milk 10 mins ii) into bed, snuggle with mummy 10 mins (I used to make up very boring stories to tell my DD when she was that age, her as a sleepy fluffy rabbit) iii) light out and mummy sits in hallway for 10 mins adjust the times as you like. Start going to bed earlier, make it relaxing and nice. NO food, No drinks (she'll have had a proper dinner an hour before?) Can you build in the 'quality' time she seems to want from you earlier in the day? When your eating or something? Try to get that night off to get back on an even keel, and the think about what you think is going wrong. You know your DD, you know when she's taking the mick and when she is actually not tired. There must be some supernanny episodes on this, maybe try to watch them again and get some ideas? Good luck OP

2isabella2 · 02/12/2018 23:12

I would take her to see Santa but explain the new bedtime rules. My daughter is almost 5 and we have just got out of lying in bed with her to do to sleep. We made the decision, bribed her with a toy she really wanted (after 7 solid days of going to sleep alone) and then did return to bed. Calmly returning her to bed every time (for ages and ages). It worked though and I'm never going back. I still give her little rewards every 4 of 5 days.

We decided to sort it as she was playing up and it was taking ages (her younger sister goes to sleep alone no problem and always has done). We made the decision, talked to her about it and stuck to it.

Good luck!

Maryjoyce · 02/12/2018 23:15

Shouldn’t have told her about the plan as nearly always they can’t sleep because excited

Queenofthedrivensnow · 02/12/2018 23:18

You have to take her to Santa. It was never an ok threat but I've been there.

I once lost it with dd1 and said if she didn't sleep I would take away some toys we had recently bought from Hamleys. To which she replied 'but I buyed them?' Which she did with her birthday money. I still feel awfully guilty about this though I did nothing and dd1 who is 9 can't remember this. And she's pretty well adjusted and now a good sleeper!

I have sat with my children every night. Youngest is 6 but the rules are absolute. I will stay here with you but you are not to talk to me or do anything. The only thing I will say is eyes closed and off to sleep.

I will be reading stuff on my phone and not making eye contact.

BertieBotts · 02/12/2018 23:19

It's too big of a jump, try getting her to make smaller changes.

I do know how draining it is when you're in the middle of it.

I used to tell DS1 I needed a wee and would be right back. Then I told him I was going for a poo and just stayed downstairs for ages doing what the fuck I wanted. When I went back up he'd invariably fallen asleep waiting. It's how I broke the habit, he wasn't really anxious, he just liked to know I was there. Knowing I was coming back seemed to fulfil that just as well.

Ohyesiam · 02/12/2018 23:21

The thing is, Going to sleep And doing it now exciting thing are opposites, They antagonise one another and are very ery removed from one another. Excitement works against sleep.
Also it’s not that you want her to get to sleep is it that you want her to be quiet and stay in her room and stop taking up your time in the evening , which is absolutely fair enough. You need to teach her to do this though, rather than persuade her to.
It has to be totally unrewarding for her to stay awake and talk. It will involve tears.
Sit outside her room, every time she comes out and talks to you say nothing but “ bedtime darling” and lead her back in. It took us from 7 to 10pm one Friday night. But she has always been able to get to sleep on her own ever since.

GivingBloodFeelingGreat · 02/12/2018 23:41

You are being unreasonable.

She's 4.

SundayIsCalling · 03/12/2018 10:29

It's actually your fault for not putting in a robust night routine and taught her to self sooth.

Oh do fuck off with the 'self sooth' nonsense

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