To be (slightly) unconvinced about DSis' MH issues

[milkandpancakes]

My sister has been signed off work with depression for about three years now and lives with her fiancé who financially supports them both and seems happy to do that (I think she gets an allowance as well). When she was first signed off she did a lot of CBT and seemed to be really positive for a while, started studying and appeared to have plans to work in the future or start a business. But all this time later she seems to have just come to a standstill, she says she won't be doing anything towards her OU degree until after the wedding which is in July and which seems to be the only thing filling her time as far as I can see.

I've genuinely tried to be supportive and I don't doubt that she has issues, but it just seems like she's given up. Recently I said to her that she needs to start with something small and build her confidence from there but she replied that her depression is a fundamental part of her and she can't handle everyday normal life, it overwhelms her and it always has done. Her fiancé is the "only one who has ever truly listened...not tried to belittle or normalise it".

So basically my AIBU is, am I completely out of order suggesting/ thinking that she needs more in her life than just being at home and this can't be helping her anxiety and depression in the long term? Either way I can't get her to see that but just wanted to get other perspectives. Mental health stuff is really hard and I've suffered with it myself, I definitely relate to feeling overwhelmed but it feels like she believes the way she feels is almost uniquely bad? Or am I just not being understanding enough that this is just the way she is permanently? It's her life I know but I just feel sad for her, she's not even 30 and doesn't seem to want to do anything.

Sounds like she's doing really well actually. She knows her limits. She understands her illness.

I agree. She's looking forward to getting married and starting a family. That's a huge thing for someone with depression to be able to look forward positively to anything. Good for her.

Be honest though, the real problem is that she doesn't have a job and that bothers you.

Nasty comment.

That's what I think you're getting at I'm afraid, milk

So she's going to have kids despite being so unwell she has been unable to work for three years? Yeh I'm judging that, sorry.

I work in mental health and what InkyToes says is true in my experience, there are certain people who do become 'professional patients' and steadfastly refuse to help us to help them. We call them 'yes, but-ers' as that's how they respond to every suggestion, they won't make any effort to make changes at all. Up to them I guess 🤷🏽‍♀️

OP, you know your sister and we don't, you're probably correct in your perspective of what's going on with her. Unfortunately though there's fuck all you can do about it and it's not really your business so you'll just have to let her get on with it.

I'm actually with you, OP. In much the same position with a relative and the whole family feel that this person doesn't actually want to get better. Not depressed, but whole lot of other MH issues present. We have quite genuine reasons for feeling like this, which I'm not going into on here, but just wanted to add that what you're feeling may actually be the case.

@BlancheM - then perhaps you need to examine your biases and work on your comprehension skills?

You're not getting it OP. Clinical depression is very often not short term & then you are ok after meds/CBT. In my experience it's ongoing, I can have good patches but it's never going to completely leave (for reasons I won't bore you with). She has a wedding to plan then she will study. That's huge. Even one tiny thing at a time when you are depressed is a massive mountain to climb. I can't even face the corner shop when I'm bad & will literally live on coffee for a few days til I really have to go out due to hunger.

Cut her some slack. Depression is not always a temporary fixable thing. It's far more complex if it's rooted in an abusive childhood for instance than if it's due to stress at work. I knew someone who had drug addict parents, she was raped at 10 on her way to steal food for her & her sisters. She still struggles mentally (& has physical scars) 20years later. I don't sit there thinking she's given up, I marvel that she's still here at all

Yanbu feeling like that but it's up to her how she lives her life. Perhaps you feel a tiny bit jealous that she doesn't have to work or have responsibilities? That would be understandable. But you need to separate your life from hers. Don't compare. Don't try and help.

I think you’re right to be concerned. If someone has stopped trying it’s not a good sign. It’s also not good to have all your energies focused on a wedding- what happens when it’s over. And having kids just makes life much harder, especially for attending appointments or having time to yourself.

My experience was being home made things much worse. Have some structure and getting out really helps. Volunteering, studying at home (not OU level, something more manageable) and getting to the gym all helped, then work eventually. Setting up obligations was one lever personally.

She needs hobbies other than wedding planning for some self worth/sense of identity. Does she see friends?

I think some people do enjoy being ill in some way. My mum to an extent but she is very mentally unwell. Even my physical issues have become part of me and it would be odd to be cured suddenly, although I do stuff to try to manage it better. Even so a certain amount of wallowing is normal, as long as it does end.

@Moussemoose - thank you for this post.

*Having depression must be awful. Having a close relative with depression is also awful.

There are support groups for families of alcoholics and people with addictions.
It is understood that if member of the family has an addiction you need support and help and you may well be critical of them. Addiction is an illness.

However, if your relative has depression you have to be endlessly supportive, positive, caring and you must never, ever judge. If you say a word that is not totally sympathetic you are unreasonable, as this thread demonstrates.

Depression impacts on the whole family.*

I have a close family member who has severe, life-threatening depression and it has been part of our family life for over twenty years. Most of the time I have managed to be supportive, empathetic and reasonable. At times I have suffered severe bouts of compassion fatigue.

It has taken me many years to unpick the fact that depression is not the same as personality. Someone can be depressed, through no fault of their own, but also have un-likeable personality traits.

The couple of times that I have tried to confide in this particular family member, when I myself have been distressed, frightened or unhappy, she has utterly failed to rise to the occasion.

Depression has robbed both of us of our relationship with each other.

The OP is not being unreasonable to look at her sister's situation in the round .

Loving a family member with depression is thankless and miserable.

I've done it.

I'm sorry if that's hard to hear but it is true. You give of yourself, again and again and again and the minute you stop you are in the wrong. If the OP has a family member with long term depression she has "cut her some slack" time and again.

You might be perfect and be able to give, and give, and give and get nothing back but I'm not.

To all those out there supporting family with depression you have my thoughts and prayers and I won't say yabu, I will say you are being human.

In hindsight, I wish that someone had taken my own family member much more firmly in hand at an earlier stage - she refused to even explore treatment for many years and her DH was also in denial.

Is it better to slightly override someone's will at an early stage of depression or have them still making suicide attempts fifteen years later?

The thing is , in this situation are this . ..

The OPs sister could quite reasonably and realistically be suffering from long term debilitating depression, where she has been fortunate enough to find a partner who is caring and nurturing - and encourages her to take life easy whilst she rebuilds her mental health.

OR

The OPs sister could have suffered from mild depression, yet seeing how much attention this garnered from family and partner - has literally milked every ounce of it and has no desire to be independent and self reliant. Quite happy with being looked after.

OR

A the OPs sister could have mild depression, which has been manipulated by her fiancé to seem (even to her) worse than it is. However , a fully dependent 'housewife ' (and pregnant dependent mother to be) is the partners ideal woman - and actively discourages any independent acts.

All of the above are EQUAL possibilities. This obsession on MN that any person declaring mental illness is incapable of lies, deception, laziness or manipulation - is just unrealistic. They are all possible as well as NOT being mutually exclusive. ! In fact many many people with MH issues are hugely manipulative.

The OP came here because she doesn't know the answer to the above, but is questioning- reasonably - wether her sisters situation is a straight forward as she would have her believe. What does she get when she does this ? The mental health police our in force to tell her that mental health may never be questioned. ! I think the treatment of the OP has been shameful. If everyone who claimed to have such detailed experience of dealing with MH problems wasn't actually talking bollocks, they would understand that close family are often the ones that suffer most in trying to help. !

I have a close family member with depression. It makes doing very ordinary, everyday things a real struggle, or well nigh impossible. To me, it appears like struggling to walk through a sea of mud up to your knees in bare feet, for miles and miles. The worst thing is, people just don't understand. Think he's lazy, should get a grip, blah blah. He is well aware of other people's judgement, and that makes everything so much worse for him when he already feels completely worthless.

Try not to judge. You aren't walking in her shoes and can have no idea at all what she is going through. Depression and anxiety are complex. Some people manage to struggle through life appearing reasonably functional on the surface. Others are just pole axed. I'm sure some people do use it as an excuse when they could do more, but many many others are living lives of absolute crippling misery.

@Fontofnoknowledge thank you so much for posting this. You've put it into words far better than me.

And yes, the family are living through it too, it is utterly debilitating, and compassion fatigue, when it sets in causes such guilt.
There appears to be no support for families dealing with severely depressed relatives.

Ooh now that's nasty milk I don't need to work on my comprehension skills- all I had to do was read all your posts, most of which are concerned about the fact your DS doesn't work and how you wish she would get a job as you perceive her as doing nothing as according to you she spends her days 'sitting at home doing nothing' with an 'empty life'.

WarCat Sat 01-Dec-18 20:02:22
So she's going to have kids despite being so unwell she has been unable to work for three years? Yeh I'm judging that, sorry.

Have to agree with this - and as unpalatable it is some people there are folks who 'play' the depression card with excuses why they can't work - when for some the reality is they're content sitting on benefits/not working and supported by a spouse and don't want to change that. Thankfully the majority in my experience who have depression absolutely push themselves to achieve/get out of bed etc.

3 years on benefits for depression with he mindset she's not even going to try anything to get better? Not a popular view but no, I think she's milking it.

oh and sorry but I absolutely can't understand why someone with depression so severe that they can't leave the house or work for 3 years is even contemplating having a child - bizarre - how is she going to care for the child when she's unable to leave the house and relies on her partner for everything? Depression so severe she doesn't socialise? At the very least as a sister I'd be advising her against bringing any children into this.

I've worked with people with MH issues and by far the ones than get better are those with things to do in their lives - voluntary work, going to the gym, church activities or whatever. Even a hour or so every day or every couple of days, whatever they can manage. Something to break up the day and help them to feel they are giving something back

But do they get better because they have things in their lives or do they have things in their lives because they already have more capacity to get better / a better prognosis than those who 'do nothing'?

I don't know the answer - genuine question.

@mancinsomniac almost an impossible question to answer I think. But imo, from what I have seen in my work, it is always interesting how those with no responsibilities in their day manage to get out of bed when they need fags/weed etc. Manage to find someone to score for them within days (hours) of moving to a new place etc even if it means getting the bus to the town half an hour away ... So if they want to do something they certainly have the capacity to. But an hour a day voluntary work??? Nah I can't possibly...
I know I sound jugdemental, am not of so many I see in real despair, trying so hard to climb that huge mental mountain and doing a fantastic job, even when they fall back. I have endless time for them.
But a lot of people use the system knowing exactly what they are doing. One woman was fuming when she found out a fellow resident didn't have to pay care fees because of their diagnosis of schizophrenia. So then lo and behold, she started hearing voices too after that. Cynical moi?