To be (slightly) unconvinced about DSis' MH issues

[milkandpancakes]

My sister has been signed off work with depression for about three years now and lives with her fiancé who financially supports them both and seems happy to do that (I think she gets an allowance as well). When she was first signed off she did a lot of CBT and seemed to be really positive for a while, started studying and appeared to have plans to work in the future or start a business. But all this time later she seems to have just come to a standstill, she says she won't be doing anything towards her OU degree until after the wedding which is in July and which seems to be the only thing filling her time as far as I can see.

I've genuinely tried to be supportive and I don't doubt that she has issues, but it just seems like she's given up. Recently I said to her that she needs to start with something small and build her confidence from there but she replied that her depression is a fundamental part of her and she can't handle everyday normal life, it overwhelms her and it always has done. Her fiancé is the "only one who has ever truly listened...not tried to belittle or normalise it".

So basically my AIBU is, am I completely out of order suggesting/ thinking that she needs more in her life than just being at home and this can't be helping her anxiety and depression in the long term? Either way I can't get her to see that but just wanted to get other perspectives. Mental health stuff is really hard and I've suffered with it myself, I definitely relate to feeling overwhelmed but it feels like she believes the way she feels is almost uniquely bad? Or am I just not being understanding enough that this is just the way she is permanently? It's her life I know but I just feel sad for her, she's not even 30 and doesn't seem to want to do anything.

She doesn't sound ill enough to be off work to be honest. Three years! Yet getting engaged and married etc? but the people who are trained in this do, which maybe suggests her illness is worse than the picture the op is giving

I’ve had depression since I was 11 years old (actually longer probably but that’s when I was first hospitalised and medicated for it) and it can get better, sometimes for years at a time and then other times I’m in a slump. I have learnt that if I put myself under too much pressure I don’t cope well and end up in a massive downward spiral. So I choose to avoid that for my own sake and those around me. There have been plenty of people over the years like you who have assumed I’m lazy, not motivated, feel sorry for myself.

YABU back off when let your sister work out how she wants to deal with her own illness.

I have to say I agree with you. I know everyone is different, but her way of dealing with depression seems to be, er, not dealing with it but instead seeing it as a lifestyle choice.

I've had severe depression all of my adult life, and was hospitalised 30 years ago for a year after a suicide attempt. Happily, I'd been in my job for long enough and was well-enough thought of that I kept my job. Im now 62 and have just retired (whoopee!) - still on anti Ds but very contented with my life.

During my time in hospital and later on, it was interesting that quite a lot of people were 'professional' patients, i.e. they were quite contented to be deemed unwell long term, and all that that entailed. Others were devastated to be ill and in hospital, and desperately wanted to get well enough to get back to 'normal'.

I have to say the former tended to be a pain to be around - they tended to be rather self-absorbed and enervating.

It sounds like your sister has chosen to let her diagnosis define her.

Thanks @CrabbyPatty. I think you're right, it is about baby steps and supporting those. I'm going to step back for a while though because I can't quite shake the feeling that she's milking it ever so slightly and that's probably not helpful.

To be fair she's been very manipulative in the past so that is colouring things for me, so maybe I'm not the right person to be supporting her but what worries me is that she doesn't have anyone apart from her fiancé and I don't know if he really wants her to get better either.

In what way is she ‘milking it’? Is she asking you for anything? From what you’ve posted it seems you just disapprove of how she’s managing her illness.

I have suffered and do suffer from MH issues and I know that taking small steps has helped me

You're not your sister, and your condition is not the same as hers, even if it has the same name.

Would you be so ignorant if you were talking about cancer? "This worked for me so it will work for you too..."

@Bombardier25966

Comparing cancer to depression?

@Bestseller

Hmm, what is her fiance like? Is he genuinely supportive or does it suit him to have her dependant on him?

This is what brought on the conversation with DSis. I think he rather likes having her dependent on him. It's just a little alarm bell that has started ringing. Today I invited her out and she said she can't as he's taken her car and she's not insured on his. I said he shouldn't be leaving her without transport but she seems quite happy with it so maybe I'm wrong.

@Bombardier25966 If I knew someone with cancer who appeared not to be seeking treatment then yes I might say something.

If I knew someone with cancer who appeared not to be seeking treatment then yes I might say something.

Despite not knowing anything about their condition? Some cancers aren't treatable, some depression isn't either. What gives you the right - or the expertise - to pass judgement?

I was wondering about the fiance. I had a colleague who had MH issues, her OH encouraged her to go sick, give up on friends, going out, and rely on him. Her family supported them because financially they were able to. He gave me the creeps to be honest because every time she had a little rally he would squash it.

Comparing cancer to depression?

What’s the issue? They both have the potential to be very serious, life changing illnesses.

Such a difficult one, OP. Ultimately it's up to the person how they choose to live their life. This may include slightly curtailing or limiting it in some way to make it manageable and better for them. The problem is- this then becomes a way of life. One of my relatives has never worked really, early diagnosis of depression, then no CV, no work, no idea of how to work and it just becomes beyond them. I do believe that they could have worked at times, but with an all or nothing benefit system, there's not much support for people who could work, say part-time but get overwhelmed if they had to work a lot and would probably then go back off sick again.

The worrying thing is they are now completely dependent on the state and their benefits have been cut left right and centre, so it is a far from comfortable existence as well as extremely stressful in terms of finances and limits to where they can go due to money. This in itself would depress me further.

Your sister is obviously happy with her fiance and you just have to leave her to get on with it. It's fine to also be sad at some of the opportunities she's missing, because the more you miss them by age 30 odd, the harder it is to try to get them back- I've seen that so many times. I wouldn't want to be dependent on the fiance in this situation, but perhaps she feels she has few choices (and if she has children, is even less likely to be economically independent in the future which may be ok if he continues to support her, less so if he doesn't).

@Bombardier25966 don't be silly. I wouldn't rock up and give advice without knowing anything, of course I wouldn't. I do know a bit about mental illness though and I know my sister well, I wouldn't call myself an expert though which is partly why I started this thread but it seems to be that you get flamed for even questioning things.

Even if your sister is a) unwilling to get better, b) milks it for all it's worth, and c) is getting married to someone who prefers her to be this way - or any combination of these - it's not well-adjusted or functional behaviour, is it, OP?

Which means she has a problem.

Depression doesn't just mean having depression and then seeking help for it. Depression can also be about a lack of motivation; the propensity to get caught in a cycle of dysfunctional behaviour; codependency; and behaviours that you don't have to tolerate personally, but which are there nonetheless, no matter how you feel about them.

See what I mean?

@Orchiddingme

The problem is- this then becomes a way of life. One of my relatives has never worked really, early diagnosis of depression, then no CV, no work, no idea of how to work and it just becomes beyond them

This is it exactly. Thank you for understanding. I guess I'm just trying to give her a nudge in the hopes it might interrupt that pattern but I probably have to accept I'm banging my head against a brick wall.

For the record I'm not against people getting signed off for mental health issues, I have no kneejerk reaction against that at all and I understand living within limitations because I've had to do that. It's just that I feel like the longer it goes on the less she will ever be able to even conceive of going back to work and I KNOW she has been so much happier when she's been doing things (working) in the past.

I don't think you are being at all unreasonable. MN will have it that anyone declaring a mental illness must be a) believed and b) never asked to do anything to help themselves.
Assuming that a. is true. (and their are plenty of people out there quite prepared to lie in order to have an easy life.) Not a daily mail observation - but 33 years as a fraud officer and seen with my own eyes. Then it is unusual that she is not looking for some help to improve her situation. Especially given her age and upcoming marriage.

How motivated is she by the wedding prep. ? Is it a terrible effort , mostly organised online to avoid the need and effort to go out and see stuff/people or does she appear to have eagerly embraced the planning. ?

If the former - then I would try and gently persuade her to take small steps as suggested by pp and not to give up.

If the latter I would suggest she is being indulged in learned helplessness by a fiancé who rather likes having a dependent female at home.. as Bestseller reasonably suggests.

I wouldn't rock up and give advice without knowing anything, of course I wouldn't. I do know a bit about mental illness though and I know my sister well, I wouldn't call myself an expert though which is partly why I started this thread but it seems to be that you get flamed for even questioning things.

Yet that's exactly what you're doing here. Because you have a little knowledge of mental illness you're judging your sister on what could be an entirely different condition.

The fact is you would not judge someone with any physical condition in the way that you're judging your sister.

she replied that her depression is a fundamental part of her and she can't handle everyday normal life, it overwhelms her and it always has done.

This is exactly how I feel when I'm depressed. When I'm not depressed I can see that it isn't true, I'm not always depressed, and I can handle things, and have done for significant periods. I literally can't see that when depressed though. What you are describing is a symptom of the problem. Depression messes with the way you think. It's why it's so hard to deal with, even with expert care.

@MoaningSickness I know

The phrase 'milking it' tends to refer to taking full advantage of something.

Then you hint at the boyfriend being the one keeping your DS down because that's how he likes it.

Which one is it? If it's both then who's the one in the wrong?

Do be quiet Bombadier it's the OPs sister - so I suspect she has a fairly good idea of what she is like ! Jesus 'Judge' must be the laziest most pointless word currently in use on MN !

Everyone 'judges' everyone. They just don't always write a thread about it. It's like political correctness overkill where no one can ever question anything anymore for fear of fucking 'judging'. Change the record !!

I understand living within limitations because I've had to do that.

You're doing it again, that's acceptable to you because you did it.

I KNOW she has been so much happier when she's been doing things (working) in the past.

People change, especially when illness hits. What worked for somebody years ago may be detrimental to them now. But apparently you know best...

@Bombardier25966 I think you're being rather facile and most people who have been around mental health have heard the whole 'you wouldn't judge someone with a broken leg' thing. Fully on board with that but the whole situation is more complex than that and I really can't be bothered with your soundbites anymore actually.

Ive worked with people with MH issues and by far the ones than get better are those with things to do in their lives - voluntary work, going to the gym, church activities or whatever. Even a hour or so every day or every couple of days, whatever they can manage. Something to break up the day and help them to feel they are giving something back.
Those that lay in till midday, smoke like chimneys and live in filth (despite help almost being thrown at them to clean/take them out etc but they decline because they cant be bothered to do it as well) are the ones who have longer term problems.
So IME YANBU to gently suggest she does something, she has said no and that is of course her right. But dont stop trying as one day she just might take you up on it and start making those first steps.