To think working hard is not even worth it?

[petcacti]

My DS and his husband work every hour under the sun. DS is in the office 8am-10pm very regularly and dsil works fewer hours but still a heck of a lot.
They've both done very well for themselves academically, allowing them to reach their current jobs. DS works in Law, and together they have a gross salary of c£200k

Wow you might think, a huge amount of money. This is London, and so their small 2 bed flat has a mortgage of £800k on it, and so most of their salary goes on keeping a roof over their heads (as do most peoples).

They have no time whatsoever, and often work 6 or 7 days a week, long long hours. Yes they can afford nice things, but the cost of living in London is so high that it's negligible.

AIBU to think working this hard is not healthy, nor worth it.
If I think to dh and I, our situation is work 35 hours each a week, a decent house, no fancy things, but a nice life.

I think in these core professional occupations (banking, accountancy & law) there has always been a culture of working long hours especially when deals are imminent so nothing new there. The pay off come in later years when they can climb the corporate ladder - it has always been the case.

Many professionals across the country are just rammed busy with Brexit planning in addition to doing their normal 9 -5 so perhaps it will subside in time.

I have very little sympathy for people who spend more than they need to on luxuries, and an £800k mortgage is a massive luxury. No one needs a flat that expensive. We live in London and know a few people who earn what they do combined as a single person, they do not have enormous mortgages like that so can live a very nice lifestyle. Complaining about your lot when you earn 10 times more than the average family is ridiculous.

The priblem here is London where prices are ridiculously hugh. Move north and enjoy a very good life style in those jobs - lower salary maybe but quality of life much better

I don't think they are complaining about it though, or are they OP?

You're not asking 'is it worth working hard?'

You're asking 'is it worth living in London'

The two are not the same.

I think their choices of investments and career building whilst young and energetic will turn out to be very good indeed.
Sensible imo. They will reap the rewards now as well as later.

It's hard, but there are plenty of people working those hours and barely scraping by.

There's no quality of life for anyone anymore, except a few who like to be really smug about it and see anyone poorer as a layabout, and don't realise luck and opportunity pay a huge part in success.

I do fear for my DC generation though. :(

Just did a search on rightmove and found 2 beds near both canary wharf and Bank for under £400k so your ds has choice to live cheaper than he is even in London centre

This is entirely their choice though. They are choosing to spend their money on vair naice things and are choosing to live in an expensive house. I’m not sure what you’re after but I have a couple of tiny violins out back.

Well they are probably enjoying it right now, and they must think it is worth it or they wouldn't bother. Obviously they are in a situation where they have options many people don't have.

Maybe as PP have said, they plan to downshift in the future/have a family/take it easier.

Why are you concerned?

They're not losing the mortgage money, though. If they reach a time/age where they no longer wish to live in London, they'll have enough capital, on selling their home, to live almost anywhere as well as a nest egg to possibly retire early. This is what I plan to do.

Op it's a choice they've made. They're lucky to be in a position to make a choice, many, many people would happily swap places with them. I'm so irritated by your post I can't say any more.

Just done some more numbers.

£200k gross gives over £100k net, even after any student loan repayments. So with £60k mortgage that still gives them £40k lifestyle spending money which is pretty healthy.

Not seeing the problem - work hard / play hard

IT depends on whether they're happy or not. when I was younger, no children etc, I worked very long hours and thrived on it. My social life included a lot of work events - either formal events which were still fun, or partying with colleagues after we'd all finished work eventually at 9pm or whatever. Coming into the office knackered and/or hungover was part of the enjoyment of the day.

Now, that lifestyle fills me with horror and dread! But if your DS and SIL don't have children as yet, and they're partying alongside working, it may be fine. And as their mum/MIL, you might not be hearing about the parties and the fun aspects!

If, however, they're miserable and depressed, that's another story.

What concerns me in this is Mr Big bucks is male as ever and is it the wife ? - I read it thinking it was a gay couple who were married but must be wrong - earns less and works fwer hours. Feels very sexist to me and then there was a sister in law. I think the post was meant to mean she has a son who is married so that is the daughter in law.

it was the same for us 30 years ago, every last penny going on full time childcare and a massive mortage (and negative equity for us in the 90s before we sold our London house at a loss). However it can pay off as later in these good careers you earn a lot more. Partners in the firms the son is in when made a partner (most people are not made a partner) can earn £400k - £2m even sometimes.

Most young couples in that position decide where to live. My lawyers daughters have bought in London to reduce commuting and it is expensive, very. Or you can slog out on the tube to my outer reaches and get yourself a garden but the commuting of 2 hours a day probably all in is not nice to add on to the long working day. It has always been a problem even back in the 1980s and earlier - do you want the nice house with a garden but the train or tube journey or do you want to be right by work in a tiny flat that costs the earth.

I’m not sure what you’re after but I have a couple of tiny violins out back.

I'm sure they're having a lot of fun, OP. It's probably all going on cocaine

I have famiy who live in a decent part of Zone 2 - you can definitely buy a 2 bed flat now for under £400K. No need for a £800K mortgage - it's a lifestyle choice!

if they're happy it's fine

to be fair, there are lot of us - inc me in the past - who worked long hours for much less pay and had an hour commute home either side. The mortgage is huge, yes, but that's because they'd rather live close to work than deal with a commute, yes?

fair enough, their money, their choice, but I would never have considered going anywhere closer to work. In theory I could have afforded zone 2 about 20 years ago, but I didn't choose it because

a) I'd have lived in a box
b) I wanted a smaller mortgage so I could save up

when you leave work so late, you get a seat on the train and it's not as if I was going to get home and study or something, so being zonked on the train for a cheaper home made sense.

tbh their careers sound like regular high pressure careers and their choices sound like they made them freely.

i used to work for a large city law firm and i and most people there worked like that for several years. To me it was worth it. It got me on the property ladder quickly, gave me career options (some highly well paid, others with decent work life balance - I ended up somewhere in the middle!) and gave me a financial cushion, although that was in part helped by an increase in property prices.

I think many people who don't live in London don't really get it. My parents certainly didn't - they could not understand wanting to live in a house/flat with no off-street parking and nowhere to keep bins etc, never mind the extortionate cost and working hours required to get it.

That is fair enough, different priorities. But i think it is for everyone to set their own priorities and for others to respect that. And my parents get it now.

They are chosing where to live.

There are many nice places in London and SE that aren't 800k.

If they want the postcode then they have to pay for it.

My mortgage was £1.3m at one point (I think 90k a year cost too at that stage out of taxed income),.,and no I don't expect anyone to weep tears for me. £800k isn't necessarily huge for all lawyers.

As to where to live it has always been hard. My daughters have bought in zones 1 and 2 but my son is in zone 9 (yes it exists - outer reaches of tube - house in Chesham about £325k although he doesn't work in inner London)

I don’t really get why it’s not worth it- they live in a fantastic area, comfortable life, and clearly they chose it!

It's a financially very savvy thing to do. They will move out a bit for a house in a few years and have kids I expect.

The best thing I ever did was overstretch myself on property when young. But I have a professional job with room for growth. Not so sensible for those working in stagnant careers.

Also, if you work really long hours in the city (and the really long hours fall at the feet of the juniors) it is sensible to live centrally so you don't have a massive commute on top. By the way those that wonder how much is spent at your desk actually working, in my experience the vast majority of it. When younger I regularly worked from 8-30 until gone 10 or 11 pm 5 days or 6 days a week. Almost all of it at my desk. I had a colleague who didn't drink as she didn't want to have to go to the loo.

The bit of your post I agree with though is that it is now so expensive that it is hard to be aspirational. Your children are on the ladder though so they have done it - things will work out for them. Trainees currently coming through may not be able to get on that ladder at all.

It wouldn't be for me - personally I would go for quality of life over money every time - but a lot of people in the big city law firms make this decision. It's often on the basis that they intend to cut down or even retire early once they have made enough money. Is that what your DS is planning?