Have I done wrong???

[onepickleonefurryoneannoyance]

Please can someone give me some perspective on this situation?

We have planned a "big" family holiday next year as we have had a little share windfall and want to treat ourselves.

We do regularly have holidays, but this will be a "biggie" and will be our first two week break together for 5 years.

Anyway, years ago, I was discussing taking my own DD to New York when she turned 16, which is not for a while yet. My niece, who was about 18 at the time said "can I come with you then"? I answered "yes, why not"???

Fast forward to last weekend and we had a family gathering. My DD, being excited about the holiday, told the rest of the family where we are going next year.

Later that evening, I get a text from my sister (not my niece) asking if my niece can come on our big holiday with us next year. She is working, so is prepared to pay her own way, but "if she can save up enough, can she come with us"?

I immediately replied saying that I would have to discuss it with my DH. Which I did, when I next saw him. We both agreed that it wouldn't be a good idea for the following reasons:

My DH only sees our niece about 3 times a year to talk to, if that, he hardly knows her anymore.
The family holiday dynamic for us with a teen is completely different to that of a 23 year old.
Our holiday is not a package and we have already paid for a lot of the elements. The only element that has not been paid for yet is the hotel. The flight has already increased in price by £300.
Our niece said she would "save" for the holiday, but we are paying for it straight away and cannot afford to pay for a 4th person and risk paying for a 4th person and then her pulling out.
It is our "special" family holiday and we don't want to share it.

Anyway, I sent (what I thought), was an email explaining most of these elements. I copied in my niece and my sister.

Since then I have had no response whatsoever. I sent my normal evening "hi" message to the pair of them last night and had nothing back.

Have I done wrong? Are they right to be off with me?

The mention of NY was to set the scene of the DN thinking she was routinely invited to 'family' holidays.

No, the OP is not being unreasonable to say 'not this time, we just want some time away as a family'.

Sister/DN very cheeky to have asked.

@BumbleBeee69

How frivolous people are spending Other Peoples money

Who is spending other people's money? The niece has said she'd pay for herself.

If it's not NY then there is no relevance to the OP mentioning it.

Unless your DD is now 16 and you’re going to NYC, YANBU. Even then people are allowed to change their minds, especially if there’s no guarantee you’ll get the money back.

But I’m reading this as though you’re off to Florida or St Lucia or something, your DD is not 16 and your DN wants to hop onto the holiday.

This is turning into cancel the cheque/penguin bollards. OP, are you going to NY?

I understood that the trip to New York and the family holiday are 2 different trips.

Yes, I understand that too.

If the niece did just want the security of travelling with family then she or the sister should have phoned you to talk about it properly, not just asked by text.

And, honestly, I think your niece was a bit weird asking if she could piggyback on your DD's trip to New York when she turned 16.

YANBU.

If the OP doesn't normally take her niece away on holiday ( which I'm assuming she doesn't ) I'm finding it hard to understand why she wants to go on this "holiday of a lifetime" if it's not NY or something similar.

Come back and explain OP please!!

Honestly, I think even if the destination is NY, you're still NBU. Your DD isn't 16 yet, and your DH is coming on this trip.

I'm guessing when you initially mentioned the NY trip years back, it was envisioned as a long girly weekend, rather than a 2-week family holiday.

Don't feel guilty about your response, OP. I'd be happy enough that you at least entertained the idea and gave (very) valid reasons for saying no.

Thanks for all your responses.

We are not going to NY next year. This is an entirely separate holiday.

The NY thing arose because my DH said he would never go back to NY but I've promised my DD that we will go when she is 16 (she is a Christmas baby). I am more than happy to take my niece to NY in a few years time, but her joining us on this holiday just isn't possible.

Then I stand by my comment. You haven't gone back on your word. Feel free to say no.

That is cheeky then if it’s not even the holiday she was told she could go on years ago

YANBU, she's 23 it's a bit odd she wants to come with you and not go away with friends anyway. NY trip is slightly different if just you, DD and her as it's like a girls' weekend type thing. You're entitled to a family holiday, especially given you'd have to pay for her in advance, what if she wasn't then able to save enough, would you be saddled paying for her?

Why mention NY then?

It’s pretty obvious (well that’s what I thought, but judging from a lot of posts, clearly not) that the OP is talking about two different holidays - the current family holiday and the projected one to NY in the future. The niece was invited to the NY one (which presumably will be a bit of a girly one) but has tried to invite herself to the family one which will be a completely different dynamic.

Fine for you to refuse and they are being unreasonable to sulk about this.

We are not going to NY next year. This is an entirely separate holiday.

Im not sure why you mentioned it in the opening post as it made things a bit confusing. However, there was no inkling or suggestion that she would be going on this separate holiday so YANBU to say so. It's a family holiday and you want to enjoy this time away together.

Explain that then if they say anything, you said she could (and I'm presuming still can?) Go to New York and you and DD are looking forward to it but this time it's just not possible as you need to pay upfront etc.

Tbh I think she is a cheeky fucker for even asking to go though, you wait for an invite or you don't go you don't just invite yourself on other people's family holidays!

You haven't done anything wrong! Like you say your DH hardly knows this niece, so her coming along would completely change the dynamics of the holiday. If your sister and niece are now annoyed with you then they are being ridiculous!

She's one of those entitled 20-somethings then. Who tries to invite themselves on someone else's holiday? Perhaps your DH should invite himself on a night out next time she's out with her mates. I'm sure he can pay.

The very fact that you’re asking if yabu indicates to me that you’v perhaps been conditioned into being a people pleaser and that others take advantage of that

I think that's absolutely fine to say no!

The New York 'girls' trip is a totally different thing, so you haven't promised her anything. It's absolutely fine to just want to go away with your immediate family, all of your reasons sound perfectly reasonable.

So the NY holiday is really of no relevance to this story. And you agree that when the time comes niece is still invited?

In that case, then your sister was a bit bold to ask if the niece could join you, I don't think it was cheeky as they didn't assume anything, but it was an unusual request. They definitely should not take any offence at your response though.

Very strange for a 23 year old to want to join your family holiday TBH.

My guess is the mum wanted her daughter to ‘experience life” or some such and go on hols with you. (Possiblynoverprotective and worried about 23 year old holidaying alone?)
So she messaged u about it, she probably never even told niece. When u sent email and copied her in (al a bit formal) was probably when you boobed? Niece probably knew nothing of her mother asking and is mortified (I would be - she’s a bloody adult) sister is getting it in neck from her daughter. Sister is annoyed you grassed her up and copied niece in. Give it a while and they will come around.

I think the only problem might be the lengthy explanations as to why DN cannot come on your family holiday.
A short: Sorry, this is going to be a family holiday, not this time. Would have been enough.

All the 'reasons', whilst valid, give the impression that you need a reason in order for your 'no' to be legit. Which opens the door for them being disgruntled at the reasons. They can then realistically think: If you really wanted to, you could make it possible, but you are not willing to make the effort.
Instead, a 'no' without reasons is less likely to 'offend'.
One way you are saying: No, I don't want to take her, but I won't say that, I'll pretend I do want to and just give practical reasons why it won't work. The other way you are saying: No, I don't want to take her.
The latter is more honest. It implies that you stand by your decision and don't feel bad about it.
The former implies that you don't feel able to openly say 'no' - probably because you feel it would be 'wrong' - so probably you are wrong to say no.