Is this neglect

[Barneythedinosaur]

NC because I don't know if she is on here. Sorry if it's long, want to try and make sure I don't miss anything.

Dsis1 has a daughter, she's almost 8. Dsis1 split with dds dad about a year ago and moved back in with parents.

Dd was an accident, unintentional, and dsis regrets having her. Dsis1 has said multiple times that she never wanted kids, will never have any more, only had dd due to accident/ mistake, wishes she'd not had her, has no maternal/ any feeling for her at all.

Dsis1 is regularly out late at night. She works until 8pm 4 days a week, so parents or my other sister (dsis2) look after dn (I live 20m away and dsis2 lives round the corner). However, dsis1 doesn't go home after work most days. She stays out until 11/12pm without telling parents/dsis2, won't answer her phone, is pretty much uncontactable. She often says to dm can you look after dn for a few minutes, I need to nip to the shops then only goes home 3 hours later. She never puts dn to bed, dn is left with a DVD to watch until whenever she falls asleep.

Meals are left to my parents, dsis1 often goes out or orders herself a takeaway then asks dm what she is going to feed dn.
Dn has very bad teeth as dsis1 won't help her brush them and never has. If you ask dn, quite often she hasn't brushed her teeth for days as dsis1 never asks her to.
Dsis2 has dn Friday evenings quite often so dsis1 can go out (She feels bad for my parents as if she didn't have dn, dsis1 would go out anyway leaving dn with our parents again). Dsis1 never sends clothes for dn, so dsis2 dresses her in her daughter's clothes, including underwear. Dsis2 has told me that she's been at our parents on a Tuesday/ Wednesday, and dn is still wearing the knickers dsis2 gave her, and when she's asked dn she hasn't had them washed in between, just hasn't changed them.

Dsis1 won't help dn with her homework, when dn asks dsis1 tells her to shut up because she doesn't want to listen to her and the homework can be done another time. I've never seen dsis1 play with dn whenever I've been there, dm and dsis2 say she doesn't. The most they do together is watch a movie.
Dn misses out on family days unless we take her, dsis1 will never come on days out or even to the park and refuses to take dn. A lot of dns clothes are too small, and she only has 2 pairs of shoes- black trainers and boots. She wears the trainers for school as she doesn't have school shoes.

When I see them together, I only ever see dsis1 being irritated with dn, complaining at her or telling her off even if she doesn't appear to have done anything wrong. I'm not sure if dn sees that she's treated differently to her cousins, but I'm sure she will as she gets older. She's starting to play up and misbehave a bit for attention.

Is this neglect? It doesn't sit right with me, but dn is fed and clothed and played with, just never by her mother. My parents resent having to look after dn, but they do it because they say otherwise she wouldn't be looked after and would miss out on everything.

Social Services will be helpful here - they can support and help your parents probably

This inbetween situation at the moment helps no one

(I had a family member who was doing things with their DC that the grandparents thought were neglectful, and others agreed. But the grandparent couldn't be there all the time and the parent thought that they were doing just fine, so any time the grandparent wasn't there, it just carried on).

That little girl is being let down by everyone around her who is supposed to look after her and love her. Heartbreaking.

Yes, she is neglected. Sounds like she'd be better off in foster care.

Yes it's neglect, but sounds like grandparents are also neglecting her if she lives there and they also can't be bothered to brush her teeth or wash her clothes?

If your parents are stepping up to support your Sis they need to also step up to parent the child if necessary: things like clean underwear and brushed teeth are part of the daily routine.
If you or your other sis could take her it would change the course of her whole little life. poor thing.

Poor girl 😢 her mum is definitely neglecting her and you need to call ss.

I don't understand why your parents haven't stepped up though tbh. Okay your dsis is in the wrong but that little girls needs are more important than who's right and who's wrong. If there was a child living in my house who was being neglected then I would just take care of them, it's a no brainer really. And they should have called ss themselves already.

Is there still such a thing as assisted adoption by family members. I believe financial assistance is/was available and then this little girl could get the care she needs within her own family.

Poor DN, was she actually well looked after before your Dsis and her moved back with your patents?
Why has no one had words with your Dsis?
Please get help for your DN. it won’t be long before she is picked on in school for having manky teeth and dirty clothes never mind the wrong shoes. What a miserable existence DN has, not even having help with home work or being played with

Outer clothes are changed daily or every couple of days, I wasn't aware of underwear until dsis2 saw and mentioned it. My parents wash, dry, iron and put away all the clothes that are taken off. They try and get dsis1 to parent as much as possible, they are aware if they step in and do everything dsis1 will let them.
They say to dn about getting washed/ changed/ brush teeth etc but dn either says she's done it when she hasn't, or the "your not my mum" line. Parents say to dsis1 "has dn done xyz" and dsis1 ends up having a massive row with them. She very much wants things her way and gets very shouty when they don't go her way. She threatens to leave, which parents don't want as they are worried about dn. At least if she's under their roof they can keep an eye on her they say.
Dsis1 did move out once a couple of months ago to stay with her new boyfriend. They'd been together less than a month, he refused to let her meet his children, he wouldn't meet her family, she took one pair of clothes for dn and no toys or anything. They broke up a couple of weeks later so she went back to parents, got back together a week after that so she moved back to his then they split up for good about a fortnight later. Parents don't want dn put in that position again as it isn't fair on her.

I couldn't afford to take on dn, very small house and barely make ends meet at the minute as it is. If I could afford it I definitely would, but I don't see my situation changing soon unfortunately. I'm currently doing a course which should hopefully help me get a better job, but that won't be for about 2 or 3 years until the course is finished and I get some experience in the area.
Not too sure about dsis2, I don't fully know her financial situation, but her house isn't big enough and I don't think she can afford to move. Whenever dn stays there she shares a bed with her cousin though, and there isn't room for another bed (2 bed house, 3 kids. 2 in bunk beds and youngest still in with parents at 2 as won't fit in the other bedroom).

I don't think dsis1 will accept help, as much as I love her she's very difficult. Very much her way is the only way and hates people trying to help or getting involved (unless it suits her).
I don't think school are concerned, outwardly her uniform is clean (thanks to my parents) and her homework is done (with me or dsis2). She is a very clever child, and does really well at school.

Has nobody confronted your sister about this, told her she needs to be a mother to her daughter? I feel so sorry for DN. Somebody needs to stick up for her.

My friend is in a similar position to you and your parents, the difference is that the kid isn’t left with unbrushed teeth and dirty old knickers. They have confronted the mum and nothing has changed much, but if you accept a child into your care, even in a babysitting capacity but especially if it’s your relative - then I expect whoever is putting her to bed to brush her teeth and keep her clean. Ffs I’ve done homework with kids that have been here on play dates! If my son is doing it and it needs handing in, sit up at the kitchen table and let’s get it done together. It can’t be too regular or taxing for an 8 year old. You’re all enabling and having a hand in this neglect I’m afraid. It’s unacceptable from all of you, and to put things right you need to call SS and speak to the school as surely they will have noticed she’s neglected too?

This is disgusting treatment of a child by their mother. Please call social services.

I think you need to talk to your sister and parents and raise your cncerns. Being in care from pillar to post isn't always the best solution. If you can get agreement to approach social services as a family for help then they may be able to support your sister/parents and avoid fall out within the family.

Either your family have to take over or she is fostered.

You cannot leave the poor child in limbo, with no one taking responsibility.

stripes before they moved back we barely saw dn. Dsis1 exP wouldn't let people in the house, and they only came here once or twice a year. They used to live just over 3h away with exP.
I get the impression there was abuse in dsis1 relationship with exP but she won't talk about him. She just says he's scum and won't have his name mentioned near her.
But she hardly left the house, didn't work until she left him, hardly ever saw us, wouldn't let us go to her. But she wouldn't leave him. She left him because of the drug dealing, he pissed someone off and they trashed the house with her and dn there. She left because she was terrified and it was the last straw.

I'm disgusted that no one has done more about this. If dsis1 won't wash her clothes or take her to a dentist then someone else has to. She is a child and it's not acceptable.
Please call social services. What a sad life this little girl has led.

The relationship with the ex is irrelevant. There is a little girl who is not being looked after properly, and is getting the message loud and clear that her mother doesn't want her.

Neglecting teeth and hygiene are not things that can be brushed under the carpet IMO. Poor little girl. Your sister sound like a selfish woman who should have done the decent thing and adopted out her child if she didn't want her.

sounds like everyone is failing this little girl tbh.

peace when me or dsis2 have dn we do bath, teeth and bed routine.
When with my parents dn is difficult, refuses to go to bed as she wants to wait up for her mum. At one of our houses she knows her mum won't be going back there so is easier.

I don't think dn would want to be anywhere but with her mum, she's extremely clingy and needy with her mum. She cries when dsis1 goes to work because she's leaving her sometimes.

We've all spoken to my sister but nothing changes. She just gets very verbally aggressive and threatens to leave with dn and not let us see her. Surely that would be worse for dn because she loses that bit of help/ influence?

I really would rather not have to call ss on my own sister, but dn needs a better life than what she currently has. I'd like to try and exhaust all options before going down that route through.

Of course it's neglect!! Poor girl. Breaks my heart to see and hear how some children have to live.

First time I’ve posted but just had to comment. Your niece is very lucky to have you all, but your sister is useless and probably always will be. Getting social service’s involved could end up with your sister taking your niece and leaving with her again. If I was in your position I would sit down with your parents and other sister and try a plan for the weeks ahead. Example: you could have her on a Tuesday night and your sister could have her on a Friday afternoon or whatever works for yourselves. That way, your parents won’t feel to left in the lurch if they can see everyone doing their bit. If I was you, I would leave your sister out of it because she sounds like a waste of space. If that doesn’t work, then think about contacting social services.

Your sister is not going step up. Your mum and the rest of the family are not stepping up either.

Someone needs to take control of the situation and do whatever is necessary to a) ensure she is properly cared for and b) to stop your sister disappearing with her, if she is incapable of caring for her.

I really would rather not have to call ss on my own sister, but dn needs a better life than what she currently has. I'd like to try and exhaust all options before going down that route through.

Sorry but your sister is not the primary consideration here.

If you want to ‘exhaust all options’ you need to make a list of what all those options are. It seems she can’t live with you or DSis2, would your parents take parental responsibility? That seems unlikely based on what you’ve said. The options seem pretty thin on the ground.

What’s left if those aren’t viable options then? Foster care? I wouldn’t like to be in your situation OP but you need to do the right thing by DN.

Seek help. It seems you may have a battle with DSis1 though. She sounds like a real piece of work.

Your family really needs to approach SS before Dsis finds another boyfriend and takes DN along for the ride.