To think speaking in another language to exclude people is rude?

[restfultartan]

First off, I was brought up bilingually so have some insight to this.

My friend was holding a small drinks get together at her flat the other night, to celebrate a big birthday.

She invited an old friend who is Finnish, who asked if her partner of 6 months could come (Finnish), my friend said sure no problem. She got a message asking if her old flatmate who is incidentally Finnish could come.

There were 2 others who were from all over Europe, including my friend's husband. So, there were 4 of us sat at one part of the room, and the three Fins sat as a trio on the other side of the room. Not once, all evening did they engage with anyone else and spent the whole night speaking Finnish. I tried speaking to them as I know one of them, and received a rather curt "Yes" and then they proceeded to talk amongst themselves again.

The Finnish couple brought food to cook in the flat as they hadn't had time to eat beforehand (drinks were from 9pm..), they did not clean up their plates or pans.

My friend was given a bottle of Dom Perignon for her birthday by her parents, and kindly shared it in small amounts between all. There was a bit left, as I had poured the champagne. The Finnish couple then returned from the dining room and I'm pretty certain she had filled her champagne flute all the way up.

After a few drinks we decided to leave for a bar as my friends husband wasn't feeling well, so left so he could sleep. The Fins then proceeded to say "oh we'll stay here", but I'm not sure if this was said in jest.

It really pissed me off that they had basically ruined my friends birthday drinks and so I tipsily told them they had been "Incredibly rude". To which they tipsily retorted that they didn't like the area that my friend lived in! (For context, it's in a nice area of North London think £1m+, but the Fins live in a council tower block)

Do you think speaking in another language to exclude people is rude? Especially when at a small gathering at someone else's house?

I think in this context yes they were being deliberately rude

I agree with you. They were boorish and extremely rude.

They were rude all evening.

They sound like dicks

In this context the language element is just one of a whole host of problems with that particular event.

In general, I'm ok with speaking languages that others don't understand in their proximity. Not necessarily to exclude them but sometimes needs must. I often speak another European language to my colleague if it'll get things done easier than having to speak in English to placate the woman sitting next to us.

Another bilingual here and god, how I loath when people do this! It's rude, they were being giant arseholes and I really feel sorry for your friend.
I hope she will remember not to invite them anywhere.

The code is to speak in common langue unless you apologise because you need to say something to someone in yours (some thing are just not translatable).

Idiots!

On teaching practice once my teacher was Welsh and when the vp came in she would say a lot in English and then say stuff in Welsh which I could only think was about me.

The Finns were rude in various ways.

Some say the Finns have odd ways.

I think the language is a bit of a red herring here. They sound rude and unpleasant generally, not rude because of the language issues.

Speaking in another language in order to exclude people is rude. But I've heard people use this complaint unfairly, when they think they're being excluded deliberately, instead of realising people are just talking their own language. Not that this is relevant to your OP, where clearly they were just rude.

I’m reminded of a South African colleague who was once in a lift in a London tower block. Two men already in the lift were making rude remarks in Afrikaans about everyone who got in at each floor.
My colleague waited until he stepped out of the lift on his floor, then turned and said “Bye, have a nice day!” in Afrikaans to the two guys. He said the look of horror on their faces as the doors closed was priceless!
Those Finns were equally rude, in my opinion. They were at a social gathering for a birthday, yet being completely unsociable. They could easily have alternated a bit of chat between themselves in Finnish with more general chat to the group in English. It was inconsiderate to their host.

Very rude.

This thread is golden on the same theme: www.quora.com/What-conversations-have-you-overheard-in-a-language-they-assumed-you-dont-know

They sound like rude people overall. Their choice of language was just one aspect of it.

Also what waxy said.

I think this is rude. Like others have said, I'm sure occasionally you might need to, but anything to exclude others is rude. Even if they were speaking English but whispering continuously to each other for hours and not engaging when others tried to join in.

I live on the border of Wales and when I spent six months in a PICU (psychiatric intensive care unit) there were two nurses who always spoke to each other in Welsh. Made me really paranoid that they were talking about how much they hated me. Probably unreasonable of me as I'm sure they had more interesting things to talk about than me, but given the psychological and physical abuse I received on that ward, I think it's understandable that I was concerned!

The Finns were rude.

Finns and people from other Nordic nations tend to be plain speaking, so next time you are with some that are rude openly call them out on it.

Oh general tip is in London be careful speaking another language as you don't know by just going on appearances who understands what. Myself and plenty of other people I know speak or understand languages that have nothing to do with our family backgrounds and weren't learnt in education. I have plenty of similar stories to Babdoc with a variety of languages.

People can also speak about things you don't understand and exclude someone, in English. But this does sound rude.

It does sound rude to me, but maybe they were just really excited to be speaking with other Finns? Especially if they have lived abroad for a while. Obvs it doesn’t excuse the behaviour but might explain it to some degree.

I was at a funeral of my ex's Turkish family.

My spoken Turkish is rubbish, I can pick up some words and get a basic drift of spoken to.

I was standing with a group of family and friends, one of the older ladies said to me in English, did I speak Turkish. They all turned to me waiting for an answer, when I said no they all turned back to each other and continued to talk -gibberish- Turkish

Its tricky. I was brought up in North Wales, and can read some Welsh and speak it a bit. English people often say that the Welsh deliberately change to Welsh if English visitors come into the room.

I think it is often more complicated. A Welsh friend moves between English and Welsh in shops; she uses English for " business"( when will it be in?) , and Welsh for the personal ( how's the baby? ) …. and she does not know she is doing it.

At the National Eisteddford a few years ago a couple behind me were talking, and one spoke in English and one in Welsh; when I asked them about it ( I was a learner) they had not realised they were doing it!

Perhaps the Finns in the original post were just so carried away with talk of home" in their own language that they did not realise that they were being rude? .

Though helping themselves to the booze is rude in any language.

Must confess that all bar one of the Finnish people I have ever met, were rather rude and odd. Seems to be perhaps part of some strange cultural attitude.

I worked for a Finnish company, in general the women were pretty much like women in the U.K..

However, the men for the most part were horrible, stern and unfriendly

I grew up in Wales and had lots of teachers throughout Primary and secondary school who would talk to each other solely in Welsh. They were English medium schools and I can only assume they were doing it to gossip and moan about us kids because they knew we wouldn't understand.

So yes, bloody rude and ignorant.

manonblack;
They may well have, and it would be tempting for them, but if they were Welsh first language people they would tend to speak in their mother tongue, wouldn't they? And as there are often Welsh speaking kids in English medium schools, it would be a dangerous things to try too often!

Most people aren't completely bilingual... They'll have one language that is more comfortable for them and it tends to be the one they think in. That tends to get used more unless the context means the second language is more appropriate. So those teachers and nurses were probably talking about personal stuff, not doing it deliberately to exclude or mock others.

I have to say I'm probably guilty of this occasionally. I know it's knackering to operate in a foreign language all the time so meeting fellow Finnish speakers was probably brilliant but given the situation, they were rude and there's never a need for rudeness. And why didn't they just grab some food on the way over? Cooking at a mate's flat is plain weird, they should have organized themselves to eat beforehand knowing they were going out.