To think a 6 week wait for a GP appointment is totally ridiculous

[fussychica]

Just tried to book an appointment at our local surgery to get something checked out. Not been for ages and I was expecting a 2 - 3 week wait but apparently there are no face to face appointments before the 4th Jan and they are not releasing any appointments beyond that date until the end of next week. There are also no 5 minute telephone consultations available until after 21 Dec. Apparently there is no doctor shortage at the surgery.
I am really shocked and not quite sure what to do apart from go private. It's not an emergency at the moment but at the same time I'm not happy to wait 6 weeks to sort it.
Have written to my MP advising him of the situation, for all the good it's likely to do.

So is this the norm now or are the people of this town alone in receiving such a sub standard service?

My GP doesn't understand why it is in remission to be honest. It (like most things wrong with me) defies explanation! There's a possibility it's due to worsening seziures, other conditions and the slight changes I made. The point is it didn't take the radical no carbs, no sugar diet I was told to follow.

Chances are my next review will show it's much worse!

My docs surgery you fill in an online form, a doctor looks at them and either calls you or gives you an appointment depending on nature.

I've always got either an appointment or phone call same day

Is there another doctors near you could swap to?

Trying to put more barriers in the way of GPs working part time is a good way to get even more of them to fuck off to Australia and New Zealand.

These extra responsibilities GP's have - management, clinics, sitting on boards - are they paid separately/extra for these?

"But if you continue to insist that GPs are the gatekeepers you can't also complain that patients need to see them. What are we supposed to do?" Exactly.

GP's can't complain there's too much pressure while they're unwilling to consider changes in practice, in organisation that would relieve that pressure - at least slightly.

My current GP surgery aren't perfect but it's open to ideas (there's a suggestion box and several have been taken on board).

They allow patients to self refer to several services, the nurse takes on a lot of tasks that were previously GP only things, they've very recently changed their telephone system to make it easier to get through without the constant redialling, they've added a separate line for repeat prescriptions so the appointment line isn't clogged with people ordering these, they're about to introduce online appointments and repeat prescription ordering. Simple ideas but which I think will go a long way to making things easier for patients & the surgery.

Why not all GP surgeries are doing these or similar I don't understand.

They are still having a lot of trouble recruiting/retaining GP's, but I think that's partly due to location (very small but densely populated town, a deprived area with high drug & alcohol, social issues and mental illness, real problems with social care, high unemployment, not the best schools etc) so not the most attractive place to live & work.

Becca - my mum also has developed t2 diabetes. As did her mum and all her aunties that had borne children, they'd all also had gestational diabetes while pregnant. My mum is an active size 14 in her early 70's who can out-stamina most 30-somethings! She also felt the approach was too blame based, she tried following the advice and when it didn't work (and she was following it to the letter she's that type) she was accused of lying. That was final straw for her. A friend recommended a book to her, the title I forget, was by an American diabetes specialist. The advice was very different to what uk patients are being told. She followed it and her diabetes is now in remission. She passed the advice on to my aunt who also has t2 - she's a size 10, always has been, and was running marathons until her 40's, so I'd LOVE to know how they tried to blame her - hers isn't in remission but it's much better managed than it was.

My surgery is truly crap. 3 weeks plus for appointments, or drop in centre in the morning - no phone calls, you have to attend in person, and then are given a time to come back. If you’re not on the door before 8, your time could be several hours later, or not at all and you have rock try again the next day. If I really needed to see the GP, I’d have to take my DC with me as school run would mean I’d get there by ten past nine and there wouldn’t be appointments left. If I did make it there by 8, I’d have to come back again at say, 11, and then have at least an hour wait. Seeing the GP takes most of the day!

I needed a repeat contraceptive prescription recently, medication I need to manage terrible periods that have landed me in hospital a couple of times, but was only informed the week before when I rang up to renew that I’d need a review/blood pressure taken at a GP appointment. Tried for 3 days and failed to get an appointment and told there was nothing they could do. On day four of failure to get an appt I was very polite but had a mini snotty crying meltdown in reception and to be fair to the receptionist, managed to get me seen there on the spot But goes to show how crazy it is to manage health conditions yourself despite best efforts to be on top of things.

My GP surgery normally has a six week wait for an appointment. You never see the same doctor twice so there is no continuity. When I tried to make an appointment last week the receptionist told me there was not a single appointment available and i’d have to phone back in a few days time and they ‘might’ have made a few appointments available to book for next year. The receptionist unfortunately sounded as though she enjoyed telling me. My surgery gets terrible reviews but the other surgery in my town failed it’s inspection this year.

Just to add, that I also take meds for my type 2 diabetes.

graphista my advice to anyone diagnosed is to buy a monitor and check what your blood glucose does when you eat things to see what helps and what doesn't.

Type 2 are told not to monitor which I think is stupid.

The diet I was given was very low carb, no sugar and only fruit and vegetables with little meat. Fruit is really bad for my blood sugars, I was told that was fine - it not. I struggle to prepare veg but have ready meals with veg.

I didn't read any books just experimented on myself, basically what I do with my other conditions anyway!

Giveyourheadawiggle - that's ridiculous! Any practice nurse can do a contraceptive review inc obs for starters as for the rest I'm speechless! What a stupid system!

Yes that's one of the things my mum is doing Becca is monitoring which you're right t2 are told isn't always necessary - ridiculous!

our surgery STOPS your medication until you can come in for a review and then you cant get an appointment!!

as for the lifestyle choices rhetoric i was told many years ago my excess weight was causing my heartburn and the reason im on double strength Ranitidine.

i lost ten stone.

Still got the heartburn and still on double strength Ranitidine.

they do not like to admit they are wrong IME Becca. For years we have been told that fat is the enemy

i can eat a little bit of fat and not gain weight.

sugar is what makes me gain.

"our surgery STOPS your medication until you can come in for a review and then you cant get an appointment!!"

and the way us patients find out is when we go to collect our meds at the pharmacy and its not there.

It's reports like that HelenaDove that actually make me question claims that all GPs are entirely dedicated and care deeply about their patients.

Ridiculous practices like that clearly show no care for patients do they?

Helena - what an utterly ridiculous waste of patients AND pharmacists time! Plus some medications are dangerous to stop without warning.

The demonising of food groups is something you know I don't agree with. We need them all (in healthy proportions) low fat, low carb, no carb, all will fuck with your metabolism and cause nutrient deficiencies.

Graphista - I'd be interested to know what you mean by a full-time GP?

I would regularly start at 8am when our surgery lines open, until 6.30pm - with maybe 50 patient contacts and decisions throughout the course of the day, as well as results, referrals, contacts with secondary-care colleagues etc...I think if you're suggesting that 52.5 hours a week (plus paperwork) of relentless, emotionally wearing hours as a GP should be the norm, then I'm afraid that you'll be left without any GP to see. Your 'full-time' GP will be burnt out very quickly. I don't know any GP's who work 10 sessions a week (session being a half-day) for that very reason.
I don't think you grasp the reality of General Practice these days.

My mum is a part-time GP. She had retired, BUT because she knew her old surgery is creaking under the number of registered patients (lots of housing has gone up, no help with the pressure that brings), she returned to work X amount of hours (I can't recall exactly how many it is, but it's 20-something, possibly 22). She has done her full-time service, over 30 years of it, and she certainly didn't have to return on a part-time basis. However she did, not just to support her colleagues, but also for the patients.

She may 'only' be part-time, but those part-time hours she works, means X number of appointments that wouldn't be available otherwise.

Typical criticism of part-timers, probably from those who have no idea what value they can actual bring.

• Actually

I don’t think it’s worth going too deeply into it as i honestly dont think people care or want to listen

If GP’s do not spend time sitting on boards, working with other services on pathways then fuck all will ever change. EVER.

I work in this field and with my own eyes see how much work goes into general practice behind the scenes. It’s a very demanding balancing act.

GP’s need the time to invest in their local services from a business point of view - their premises, their recruitment, increasing list sizes, CCG and public health demands (yes demands), statistics and processes they are obliged to provide.

They do a lot of work in the community for instance if their local population has a high incidence of respiratory conditions they will Work with other services to try to alleviate the demand on primary care services (GP’s). They may be helping to develop these pathways and processes, 1 with the aim to relieve GP’s and 2 to try to improve the quality of living for the cohort of people they are targeting.

Your local surgery is dependent upon it’s surrounding infrastructure. If you have a terribly performing local acute hospital, a huge elderly population who cannot access any help from social care, high levels of poverty, massive cuts to mental health services - where do you think these patients go? They go to their GP.

I don't doubt that GPs work very hard, struggle under work loads etc.

But our lives, as patients, are becoming unbearable. Am I expected to let my health disappear down the toilet in sympathy for my GP?

I always turn up on time, never miss an appointment, only go when all else has failed, say pleas and thank you, am not abusive, pay my taxes, have private health insurance to lessen the burden on the NHS, vote for parties that support the NHS - what more should I do?

I'm sorry that I am ill and placing a burden on my GP but is it right to treat me as a major pain in their arse because I need to see them?

Graphista A FT GP is probably working 70-80 hours a week by the time you include training and keeping up to date with publications. The salary isn't as high as you think if you have a family to support. If both parents are working the childcare costs for more than 1DC don't make it worth it to work FT during the preschool years then you hit the school years and the DC are in and out of school because of the way term time is organized.

I was shocked that when DH and I looked at moving back to the UK it was going to cost me £38k to buy the quality childcare needed for me to work. That meant I needed to make £60k just to cover the childcare bill. That didn't cover pension contributions, cost of running a car, kiddy activities etc. For all the stress involved it wasn't worth it for me to work FT should we move back. DH outearns me by a huge margin so my income is always going to be the one considered against the cost of childcare. I'm very sure plenty of GPs face the same issue so go PT.

weetabix Ask your Mp to support working families by making childcare costs fully deductible against income. It would have such a massive positive impact on all dual income families. So many more families should be receiving benefits because they opt for quality childcare which costs a lot.

I think people are just encouraging people to take a wider view. The health of our country does not start and end with a GP and it is not GP’s bad practice that has got us here it is our government. GP’s are fully aware that the primary care model is sinking and they are doing what they can to manage it, unfortunately with dwindling staff and population increases it is basic economics that this would happen. I can only urge people to try to make use of all the services out there they can including 111, out of hours, minor illnesses services and pharmacists. If more people were sensible about the route they take - not going to the GP with a cold or a blocked up ear - then the people who need the services may have more opportunity to be seen. We need to educate people in self care but also hope that Brexit does mean that money will be injected into the RIGHT areas of the NHS. Unfortunately I don’t hold out much hope and I think in 10 years we will all see a very different system to what we have now

Spot on, Brimstone.

I can only urge people to try to make use of all the services out there they can including 111, out of hours, minor illnesses services and pharmacists.

My own very naive view but I think these have made the situation worse. They seem to be diverting money away from GPs but at the same time their use is limited plus patients don't like using them.

In my small area we have 2 walk in centres run by a private clinic, an OOH service run privately and an extended hours GP service run privately. Great. Except that they can't do the things that the GP does so why not spend that money on existing GP services?

Weetabix that’s the crux. It isn’t the patients fault the service is crumbling but nor is it the GPs and yet too many are oh so quick to assume it’s the doctors not caring or working hard enough or being part time or not deserving their wages etc etc.
Frankly you could t pay me enough to be a GP when I see what my friends go through
They are dedicated and extreme to hard working and could have a much easier and better paid job elsewhere but stay because they have a vocation. Lord only knows why they bother when I see comments like those from Graphista.

Doctors are patients too sometimes as are their families.

And why would they voluntarily set themselves up to be in a situation where everyone moans at them and saves loads of issues up for one ten minute appointment because they can’t get in easily?

The pressure the system is under is making their working lives unbearable. The risk of suicide amongst medics is one of the highest of any profession. We have had two GPs near here take their own lives.

So feel damm angry at how hard it is for patients of course but direct the anger somewhere else.

The country voted in the conservatives and along with them austerity. They moan about taxation. You can’t have everything and we have simply not supported the NHS properly for so long that the system is badly designed and not working for anyone. Chucking more money at it now is a drop in the ocean.