To think a 6 week wait for a GP appointment is totally ridiculous

[fussychica]

Just tried to book an appointment at our local surgery to get something checked out. Not been for ages and I was expecting a 2 - 3 week wait but apparently there are no face to face appointments before the 4th Jan and they are not releasing any appointments beyond that date until the end of next week. There are also no 5 minute telephone consultations available until after 21 Dec. Apparently there is no doctor shortage at the surgery.
I am really shocked and not quite sure what to do apart from go private. It's not an emergency at the moment but at the same time I'm not happy to wait 6 weeks to sort it.
Have written to my MP advising him of the situation, for all the good it's likely to do.

So is this the norm now or are the people of this town alone in receiving such a sub standard service?

YANBU - it is totally ridiculous but happens a lot. I found out I was preggers at 7 weeks and there was a 6 week wait at surgery for 1st ‘booking in’ appt so they can refer you to hospital for scans. I had to self refer to hospital as I would’ve missed the 12 week scan if I had waited till the 1st available appt. My advice...change surgeries.

londonrach

The practice that my sister is at does this - it's hated. She works in a school so can't have her phone on and they will never give her a time when the dr will call her so basically she just can't go to the dr.

Also, if it's a routine appointment you don't need to take the day off work for it and yet with this system not only do you have to be available to speak to the dr you also have to be close enough to the surgery to get there quickly if they have an appointment. So do they expect you to take days off work everytime you need to see the GP? As though it isn't hard enough already for people with long term or complex health needs to stay in work as it is.

Sorry @Becca19962014 and @Imissgmichael

My post was ambiguous. HIS diabetes is self inflicted as he consumes packets of biscuits for breakfast, and does zero exercise. I have no idea about other people.

I think a six week wait is appalling. Not the same everywhere though. We can usually get an appointment the same day or the following day, but I live in a rural area with a smallish population.

If you’re in London sign up to gp at hand - much quicker and better and free.

Otherwise use a private gp. There are loads around.

If you’re in London sign up to gp at hand - much quicker and better and free.

Haven't there been problems with them and you have to de register from your NHS GP. What happens if you need a face to face consultation?

Otherwise use a private gp. There are loads around.

And if you can't afford a private GP?

Oh sorry arethereany I hadn’t realised you are an expert and had done a thorough assessment.

You do realise that poor diet and exercise is only a risk factor and there is no real evidence that it’s a cause of type 2. Oh and those selfish people, mostly mothers, who have the teremity to work part time. How dare they.

"That might be true for why GPs are overly busy, but it will save the NHS money in the long run" I really don't believe that.

I've been on a few threads re the state of the nhs and particularly primary care at the moment.

The difference across the country is ridiculous.

My surgery patients can self refer for physio, podiatry, midwifery, audio. The practice nurse is highly qualified and can prescribe many common meds. Absolutely NO reason this can't be the case around the country.

I've also experienced GP's fobbing off both myself and my dd for YEARS, preventing/delaying us from getting the correct dx for serious conditions. Resulting in those conditions becoming worse and thus requiring more & more stringent/invasive treatment which I'm sure (and yet whenever I've asked posters claiming to be GP's on here NONE have answered this question, instead they've usually ignored or ghosted the thread - and yes I know they don't "owe" an answer but I still think it's very telling) has cost the nhs MUCH more long term than if even one of those GP's had actually listened and referred us to the appropriate specialists.

Plus people not getting appointments in a reasonable amount of time means likely whatever's wrong with them gets worse, potentially resulting in hospital admissions - that's not money saving that's bloody irresponsible!

If there's a GP shortage (and I too think a HUGE part of the problem is too many part timers who were more than happy to accept the investment in their training & happy to accept the high salary but unwilling to provide the service they were trained FOR - don't even get me started on the fact that most won't work outside office hours EVER, nor bank holidays and the ludicrous length of Christmas/winter closures) then one major way their appointments can be kept for the things best suited to be dealt with by a GP is not purely using them as supposed "gatekeepers" to other hcps who patients are usually perfectly capable at recognising when they do & don't need to see them.

Imo this applies to:

Audio services

Physio

Podiatry

Midwifery

Gynaecology

Dietitian

opthalmology services (at the moment we have the RIDICULOUS situation where initially you're not allowed to make a GP appointment for eye issues, you're supposed to see an optician first, if they can't help they refer you to your GP & unless you have a referral it's impossible to get an appointment for eye issues, then in all likelihood the GP can't help and refers you to an opthalmologist! So basically you need to organise THREE appointments before you begin to get the issue addressed!!)

If all GP surgeries did this/primary care was organised this way there'd be far more appointments available for those that need them and less unnecessary work for GP's & their support staff to do.

As for "patients would self refer to specialists unnecessarily" I strongly recommend you read this thread I started about women being repeatedly fobbed off:

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3402449-Aibu-to-ask-you-to-tell-me-your-experiences-of-being-dismissed-by-medics-as-a-sick-woman-I-promise-to-listen

The example you cited MeredithGrey is the minority.

Notpostedherebefore - most surgeries do the "phone on the day" appointment nonsense which in reality means often TRYING to get through by CONSTANTLY redialling, usually resulting in having to do this several days in a row until you get through and there's actually an appointment available by the time you get through - it's essentially a lucky draw system rather than one based on need! In fact it disadvantages certain patients greatly. I recently took calling EVERY day for 11 days to get an appointment for my dd - who works and can't be redialling for potentially several HOURS (on one occasion it did take 5 hours just go get through - I did complain on that occasion) to get through to make an appointment!

The missed appointments is a red herring in my opinion as surgeries always run late anyway, if everyone who was supposed to did turn up what state would things be in then?

"where I work every single person that calls on the day gets a call back from a doctor and either seen that day or booked into an appointment convenient for them." I'd love to know if your patients, even your receptionists agreed that were true.

"And could I just point out that 'part time' GPs also get a part time salary?" And? That doesn't help the patients needing appointments, especially if your surgery is unable to provide another GP to cover the other 2 days a week, because they can't afford to or because they cant recruit a GP who wants to only work 2 days a week - or are they paying for locum cover?

Honestly if you think it's so bad why did you undertake the training to become a GP and why did you accept the nhs investing in you (thinking you'd work full time after training - I wonder if you'd said at your interview you only intended to work part time if you'd have been selected)? It seems to me there's too many people going into GP training not because they genuinely like the job or particularly care for patients but because it's an area of medicine that is very well paid but doesn't require antisocial hours and you can work part time in. And that being the case is what's playing a large part in the current crisis. If the majority of GP's worked full time I highly doubt we'd be thinking there aren't enough GP's.

Becca I'm so sorry you've been treated like that. It's bollocks - if t2 were completely self inflicted EVERYONE who is overweight and eats a lot would have it. That's just one factor and actually some experts are starting to query if being overweight contributes to t2 or if being genetically prone to t2 also equates to slower metabolism and increased appetite which is causing the increased weight. Fact is currently nobody knows why some people get t2 while others with apparently the same risk factors don't.

Those of you able to get appointments in a reasonable time - can I ask are you in reasonable affluent areas with probably a younger, healthier population?

Jasjas - I didn't bloody vote for this! Never voted Tory in my life (inc Tory lite) and never will!

"If you’re in London sign up to gp at hand - much quicker and better and free." Privatisation by back door which will make matters worse in the long run. Especially for the MOST sick/disabled as they can't afford private healthcare.

graphista it is and I know I'm missing out on what could potenially help me in terms of support as a result but my mental health just couldn't take it. I joined a forum and posted about it and overwhealmingly others said they got blamed too and told to get a grip.

There are many illnesses for which there are risk factors and I doubt very much people are treated the same way.

Graphista those comments are awful. And suggest you have no understanding at all of the realities of a medical job.

Oh for gods sake, are we now arguing doctors shouldn’t work part time? I really do despair. . Most part time doctors are women. Perhaps women shouldn’t go in to medicine at all. Look iv seen this type of argument before and it’s really, really pathetic and very sexist. I wasn’t a doctor but was a nurse and was told by a patient that I shouldn’t have allowed myself to ge pregnant. Same old, same old. I actually changed surgeries because a female doctor was forced out for working part time after the birth of her child. The surgery lost a very good doctor and a significant amount off patients.

That sounds awful to have to wait that long! It sounds like my surgery is a rarity as it has drop ins each morning and afternoon and appointments given for midwife, nurse, etc. Sometimes wait a while (2 hours is longest I've waited usually around an hour). Feel very very lucky to have this and wonder why it isn't more common? Don't think my surgery is packed with doctors or has a smaller list than others?

The best GP I ever had ended up leaving because the practice demanded they went full time with two children under five and after nearly dying during birth of the second. She went back after six months after a huge amount of pressure and the practice demanded she went full time. It was clear to even me as a patient she couldn't cope with full time, she went back far too early (she never told me this but i could see) and despite saying no in private the conversation(s) became public knowledge after receptionists started bitching to patients she was refusing to work more days.

Eventually she ended up standing in the surgery announcing to everyone after finished one morning she was leaving altogether and the practice manager could go fuck herself.

If you knew her you'd know just how out of character that was for her to do.

The treatment she recieved was beyond disgusting and I know other female GPs have had similar. She never went back to practicing and, died four years later after having repeated breakdowns.

Many patients and staff left when she did.

I reduced my GP to tears four months ago after mentioning I'd put her forward for an award. She had no idea, I'd not told her, assuming she'd find out, but no, I made damn sure after that she got to see her nomination and the health board knew about it, but everyone was very dismissive in a "oh it's not a complaint?!? why bother" sort of way.

Yes I complain when I need to but I also say Thankyou. Drs, nurses and other HCPs are people too and sometimes patients forget that.

There are certain jobs where the training is so expensive that people doing them should have to work full time, yes. It is simply not viable to train double the number of doctors so each can work 0.5 fte due to the cost of doing so.
Or at the very least it should be the take home pay that is 0.5 for 0.5 FTEs rather than 0.5 of gross pay that cab often work out to be 0.7 of take home pay.

I agree that there's not much your mp can do unless he can somehow magically knit a gp?

My MP did get involved with my GP surgery and they've made vast improvements so don't write them off.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/23/out-of-hours-service-assigned-just-two-doctors-to-14m-patients?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Becca - in addition blaming the patient serves no purpose and actually has been proven to make patients LESS likely to engage (which is the case for you) MORE resistant to advice or treatment and therefore LESS likely to do what they can to improve their situation.

It's why the way smokers & other addicts are treated has vastly changed, yet when it's food related factors we're still (as a society) shaming patients!

Slightly less so where it's anorexia, but if we can at least partially accept that anorexia is a mh condition why is it we aren't yet accepting the same could well be true for those who over-eat? I'm overweight, but I'm not as overweight as I was. I believe the reasons are complex and inc possible genetic factors and meds side effects (this is also often ignored!), but I lost a significant amount with the help and support of a slimming club. People who've never been overweight, let alone to a slimming club could well be unaware, but what I heard repeatedly was people having deep emotional difficulties with their relationship with food. A few had "always" been overweight but that simply meant they were the victims of their parents own issues with food. Most, their overeating was triggered by a traumatic event or period of stress in their life. Until the underlying reasons why people overeat are addressed we're not going to crack the obesity crisis nor prevent/treat the conditions we believe are caused by them.

I noticed early on that what the class leader never did was shame anyone for being overweight, for gaining that week, for giving into temptation - but she did explore how they felt, what triggered their decision to go off plan, and aimed to refocus them by concentrating on the positives of not losing weight for the sake of it, but being healthier, more comfortable with their bodies etc.

She understood that making members feel crap for "failing" just perpetuated the bad behaviour, the poor choices. WHY this approach isn't being used within the nhs more (as I say you see it a bit in relation to addiction) I really don't know.

Brimstone I'm an ex nurse and I'm still in regular contact with ex colleagues who also despair of how primary care is currently being handled as they're dealing with the fallout.

Sorry but I agree with user (Unless exceptional circumstances eg where like in beccas Drs case the dr was clearly ill & recovering from a trauma) we just cannot afford to be very expensively training Drs, especially GP's, if they're not intending to work full time at least for say 10 years post qualification.

It's bound to be skewing recruitment planning too. If those going into GP were honest saying they intend to work part time BEFORE they start training then surely that means those planning recruitment and deciding how many to accept for training can try and increase the number of people trained, in order to try to provide enough coverage. Although that wouldn't completely solve the issue.

Maybe

Allow more applicants to undertake GP training to allow for the fact many want to work part time.

Adjust GP salaries so that more/enough can be trained/hired.

Allow patients to self refer where possible so GP appointments purely to obtain a referral aren't necessary.

Train & Hire more nurse practitioners and educate the public as to the fact these nurses can provide certain services they might think are ones only the GP can provide. Ours is excellent, but there's only one of her, whereas we always seem to have 2-3 locums in the surgery at any one time which must be more expensive than hiring another or even 2 full time np's. The locums are often taking appointments that could be handled by np's.

Personally I also think better training of GP's so they listen & don't fob off particularly women with long term issues, referring them to specialists when it's clear the GP either doesn't know what's wrong or their treatments haven't worked, would reduce how many GP appointments are needed.

It really must be a false economy only treating the symptoms which too often is what's happening. When identifying the cause and thus being able to provide the correct treatment would not only be better for the patient but save money long term.

You can't train more nurse practitioners if we cannot attract people to train as nurses in the first place or keep them in training or stop them leaving short after training.
GP s do their training after they're qualified and the are not enough drs interested in applying .
Also Drs are one of the professions that do repaytheir training.If we only recruited men on the basis that they won't be affected by pregnancy and will be always full time then you really need to look at how many female Drs there are and whether we could run any service without them.

Have you asked to be called if there is a cancellation?

Lol - the idea that you get phoned back if there is a cancellation!

That's not to say that the GP booking systems aren't sensible.
The other day I phoned at 8am for a same day appointment.No problem,they have one free at 8.10.I point out that unless I was standing outside the surgery that wouldn't be possible but I could manage 20mins.
Apparently this isn't possible because they have to book the appointments in order so can't release them early.
After offering to come downtown the surgery and wait for an appointment but that I would need somewhere to lie down if the wait was more than 30min they found me a slit at 9.10.
Apparently patients in the know who are well enough turn up at 8am as they know those first few slots can't be used by anyone who phoned at 8am when the Lines open.
It's the booking system that is the problem.
You also have to remember that a lot more managerial/commisiong roles have been ddown to GPs on top of everything else they do.