To be angry with my DM for being emotionally unavailable my whole life?

[ManonBlackbeak]

Just the really.

Background. My DM has never in my life told me that she loved me or hugged me. The same goes for DB. I don't doubt that she loves me, but she just can't show it. There was a thread in chat the other day where Mum's were talking about little things they did to show their children that they love them like leaving notes in lunch boxes or warming coats on radiators when it's chilly, and I could have cried because my DM literally never did anything like that.

Growing up I had friends that had the most amazing relationships with their Mums and they could tell them everything and I never had either. She wasn't someone you could talk to. She was moody, unpredictable and sulky. I'd never know what I was going to get and she would fly off the handle over the most ridiculous things. Constant treading on egg shells.Worries and concerns were met with 'don't be so silly' or 'it'll be fine' and a brush off. Opinions different to her own were met with 'shut up' usually.

It's hard to explain, I sound so ungrateful. Even now if I need a sounding board about something im told to stop whinging because she 'can't deal with it'. Yet Ive got to sit there and continually listen to her whinge about how shit her life is (it's not btw).

Surely parents are supposed to love and nurture their children? Listen to their worries and boost their self esteem? Yet DB and I now both suffer with mental health problems as adults, him depression and me depression and anxiety. When DB was first diagnosed his GP told him to reach out to a family member to talk, and he tried to talk to her and she just sort of brushed him off. Thank god he now has a lovely DP who seems to have lots of emmotional intelligence and will support him if he ever relapses.

I just feel saddened and angry about it. I want to challenge her but I know it won't end well.

Is it wrong to feel like this?

No, YANBU at all. If I were you I’d ask for this post to be moved to Relationships rather than AIBH

It's fine to feel angry. You can feel however you like. It sounds like you have good reason to be angry. And you don't have to listen to her anymore, if you don't want to.

I would wonder, at the same time, how your DM was parented when she was little. Sometimes people deliberately choose to do the opposite, but more often than not we parent or children the same way we were brought up. I'd also wonder about her state of mental health.

*parent our children

I'm sorry OP. Being emotionally unavailable to a dependent child is one of the worst things a person can do

In reality it sounds to me like your mum has mental health issues of her own

Literally everything you say points to this and MH issues do run in families

Maybe, just maybe, she is suffering too

You're not wrong. My mother was the same as yours but only in paragraph one. I struggle to understand mother-daughter love as I was never given it. I don't ever remember being kissed, cuddled or being told I was loved.

I literally cannot understand my friends who tell me about their close relationships with their mothers, how they miss each other then snuggle up on the couch together and share a bottle of wine.

I also want to challenge my mother but I know I will never have the guts to do it. Maybe on her death bed?!

The sad thing is, my mother complained about her mother being cold and unloving but she chose to continue the cycle. I now live 2000 miles away from my mother and she makes passive aggressive comments about having no grandchildren

This is the same (lack of) relationship I have with DF.

I don't think my DM was parented very well in all honesty. Not abused or anything like that, but I know that she thinks her sister was very favoured over her.

How she was parented and her life experiences may be a reason for her behaviour but it’s not an excuse for it.

If you'd had a crap childhood yourself, surely you'd make a point of bringing up your own children differently? Although I'm not entirely sure my my DMs childhood was crap as such, more that it was of it's time (60's/70's).

No, yanbu at all. Of course you can feel anger. You were denied a close relationship with your mother. However, does that anger serve you? It sounds as tho your mother might also have had mental health issues. Would it help to deal with your anger by trying to understand why she was so cold and distant? You then may be able to forgive her in a way. Forgiving doesn’t mean excusing her or letting her closer to you. It means accepting her flaws and moving forward

Anger is a perfectly reasonable and healthy response to being emotionally neglected.

I think things go round in circles for some parents op, as it is all they knew themselves

My mum was like yours, and she too had a mother who was cold and unloving and they hated each other when my mother was an adult...although they were stunningly alike...and ended up not speaking..with each claiming to be the victim

I feel I have broke the mould though and if anything am way too OTT like trying to get as far away from my mothers parenting style as possible, and so has my sister with her kids

OP, I know exactly what you mean. I’m seeing a therapist at the moment and this is all coming up for me. I’m only just starting to realise how emotionally absent my mother was in comparison to others. Then I feel guilty because I wasn’t starved or abused or beaten...it wasn’t that bad. But not ideal.

I honestly think the mental health thing though. My mother definately has MH issues. Id go home after school to a cold house and her in bed and no food...and be shocked when i went to friends that there was tea on the table etc

Growing up, each one of us, the offspring, ended up with mental health issues, some more serious than others, and then several of the grandkids now coming into adulthood have them, although my mother was never diagnosed she definately has the traits of Bipolar although she never has been treated for it, other than alcohol and weeks in bed

You say that you don't doubt that your mother loves you. Can you explain why you think this?

What I'm trying to get at is that perhaps her way of showing love is different, but not necessarily objectively worse, than yours. I understand completely how you feel - my parents think that "you don't tell people you love them - you show them through your actions", and think that displays of affection or saying "I love you" is very shallow and false.

It's taken me until my 40s to appreciate that they are also the product of their upbringing, just as I am, and that to be angry about this is only going to drag me down (like yours, this conversation wouldn't go the way I want it to with mine).

What I try to do is to appreciate the ways that they believe they are showing their love, and accept that, though this has definitely caused me harm (my mother, for example, has always been hyper--critical, because she wants me to try harder, do better, and let no one put me off. One of the results of this has been extremely low self-esteem, for example)

I have suffered from very serious mh issues for a number of years, but I have to accept, though my parents' attitude has been, in my perspective, extremely sub-optimal, they (mostly) haven't intended to cause harm. It doesn't mean at all that harm hasn't been caused - but from my perspective, getting angry won't change or undo that. And it will probably cause me more harm.

I do get sudden flares of anger, and have to remind myself that I can take another perspective if I choose - and it's not easy. But I think it brings me - me, not anyone else - more peace to try to reframe things.

I have learned, too, not to, for example, seek comfort from my parents. They couldn't provide comfort to me as a child, in the way that I wanted or needed - so why do I think all these years later they will have changed? Experience shows me they haven't - and Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing but expecting a different result: so seeking comfort from them, whilst a natural desire, is not going to end the way I want it, and as a result, is going to lead me to sadness, anger and disappointment. So I have to - again for my own sake - accept this, and find other solutions. It sucks that it's this way, and a lot of people won't have this - but I try to remind myself that there will be things I take for granted that they don't experience.

It's very, very hard, though, and it's taken a very long time to get to the point I'm able to reframe it this way. to you.

Some people do make the choice to raise their kids differently.
Some people don't have the insight to see that anything was wrong with the way they were brought up ("a clip round the ear never did me any harm" school of thought).
Some people would like to do it differently but don't know how (see goforkyourself's comment about not understanding mother/daughter relationships, though she can identify that her own upbringing wasn't great).
Some people mistakenly believe they have brought their own kids up differently, when they haven't (sounds like goforkyourself's mum).

Great post Hefzi.

Sorry, cross post, op - my mother had an emotionally abusive mother. We were brought up completely differently to how she was (and were constantly reminded of this) : all it meant was that she was emotionally abusive in a whole load of other ways. It's not her fault - she thought being different solved the problem. Your mother may well have been the same - she was so determined not to repeat the mistakes in her childhood that she didn't recognise that she was causing harm in a different way.

I'm not trying to excuse her, and you definitely have the right to be angry that your needs weren't (and probably still aren't) being met. The question is what you do with that anger - and in that, you need to put yourself and your own interests first.

DM always seemed desperate to please her own mother, literally dropping everything to run her here there and everywhere and yet she freely admits she would never have done the same for her. It's such a strange dynamic when I think back now.

DM is not a bad woman by any shape or form, we were always clean, well fed and clothed. We went on holidays and things like that. But she would often make promises and then break them, I can remember nagging her to take us to see a film in the cinema and she eventually agreed to take us that Saturday and then when it came around to it we just didn't go, no mention of it. I think really she just didn't want to go, but instead of saying so or just sucking it up for us we just didn't go.

I can count on one hand the number of times we did fun stuff. She took us to the zoo once. But it was always Aunties or friends parents who took me to the cinema or swimming or to a pantomime. Isn't part of being a parent doing things you don't want to to do just to make the kids happy?

If I needed money for anything she'd give me it, but the emotional support just isn't there.

I have had the same with my DM.

We have always had to parent her rather than the other way round. Consequently, I feel like I don't have a mother & it's not a nice feeling at all. It hurts deeply not having that very close bond in your life but you can spend too long mourning the lack of a loving mother. You've every right to be angry but quite honestly, where will it get you? Deal with how you feel though because that's far more important & focus on the loving relationships you do have. Easier said than done, I know!

I've put all my love into my DD & she has what I didn't, that makes me proud.

I jus think assume she's loves me I suppose. For example if I went to her and said I was in serious debt she'd give me the money no questions asked. I was in a bad road accident a few years ago and when she heard (I phoned my dad in a state of shock) she dropped everything and raced to the scene practically in tears until she realised I was not badly injured.

It's just the lack of emotional support. I can't talk about my anxiety because she doesn't understand why I'm anxious (neither can I lol) but she'll tell me that I'm being silly and what's the point in worrying about stuff that might never happen etc and that's not how Anxiety works.

Good post Hefzi.

Different people show love in different ways and we will be judged by the standards of the future not by the ones we are trying to meet today. Our own children - whom we believe we have done everything we can for - may judge us very harshly indeed.

I had a great childhood. Space and freedom, enough food, clothes and a warm home. My own mother growing up poor in the 1930s and 40s had none of the things I had. Yet now I am looking at what I do for my kids and I think "Why couldn't my Mum have supported me in this?" or "Why could I never talk to my mother about that?" Different times. No parent is perfect.

(That is not to dismiss your feelings OP nor to say that others did not experience poor parenting - it is just a general observation)

Ive got to sit there and continually listen to her whinge about how shit her life is (it's not btw).

Just to say, you don't have to do this. You can decide not to. Doesn't make you bad person. You can set your own boundaries about what you will and won't accept, just as your mother has. I would definitely look into counselling to talk it all through though. It has the potential to really help you.

How old are you, OP? Are you in a relationship with a partner who is able to give you emotional support.

Your mother sounds very much like mine was. I was able to simply accept that "it was what it was", so to speak. Luckily for me I met my husband when I was at university, created my own family - they are my family unit. As an adult I had no feelings for my mother, felt pity for her and supported her when she grew old and disabled, and felt little emotion when she died.

You are not helping yourself by wishing for a better relationship; better to seek that emotional support elsewhere. This sounds harsh, but you are beating yourself up over a situation which is not likely to change.