Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To agree that Tony Martin's murder conviction should be over turned?

342 replies

FeckingEll · 16/11/2018 00:11

Just read an article that he is appealing against his conviction so his name is cleared before he dies. It always troubled me.

Putting myself in the position of living in a isolated farm which had been continously burgled, probably living in a state of hyper vigilance. Home invaded by a group of young men in the middle of the night. It was not right that he shot when they were not actually advancing towards him but he wouldn't have known that they weren't going to turn round and come back.

He didn't seek anyone out to kill them and he couldn't have been expected to have taken account of the age of the people who had invaded his home.

Much was made of him 'booby trapping' his house but who wouldn't so you could hear if anyone got in while you were sleeping?

The people responsible for the 16 year olds death were the adults who took him with them to invade someone else's house! It could easily have been Tony who was murdered. If someone invades your home in the middle of the night, you can expect that to be a potential outcome, no?

The way Tony was portrayed in the media was abhorrent especially as it has come out that he is on the autism spectrum.

?

OP posts:
RedneckStumpy · 16/11/2018 03:30

We keep a pump action shotgun specifically for home defense. Standing at the top of the stairs and racking the slide is the most intimidating sound in the world.

We load it with 3 birdshot shells followed by 2 solid slugs, the birdshot won’t go through walls so is safe to use indoors without the risk of killing people in another room.

The slugs are plan B

Shootfirstaskquestionslater · 16/11/2018 03:34

YABU no his conviction shouldn't be overturned he booby trapped his house by removing the bottom and top steps from the staircase he killed a 16 year old lad with an illegal gun that he had no lience for and last year he went to see his grave he told a complete stranger that he was the one who put Fred Barras there and in his own words he said to his grave ‘Well, boy, this is basically what you wanted. You’ve made your mark’ he has abosultley no remorse and as far as he is concered Fred barras's mum shouldn't be blaming him for the fact that her only son is dead. This is a man who said that he pretended to shoot someone in prison when he found out he was a burglar.

Caprisunorange · 16/11/2018 03:36

Of course it happens ginger. It happened to Tony Martin! It’s obviously extremely rare though, I’m sure you’d agree?

You should read martins court judgements. There was no mental illness affecting his judgement when he killed the burglar. No mention of Asperger although I guess that could’ve been later diagnosed- although of course, having Asperger doesn’t make one a killer.

Also ginger, stumpy, as you know, it’s not legal to use a firearm against an intruder in the U.K. it doesn’t matter what hill billies in the back of beyond do Hmm

SmashedPatsy · 16/11/2018 03:39

I'd rather kill them, so they can't commit crimes again. Anyway, we will never ever agree.
Should someone have murdered Tony Martin first, given that he owned an illegal firearm (and did go on to commit more crimes?)

Caprisunorange · 16/11/2018 03:42

Have you killed someone before steam?

SteamTrainsRealAleandOpenFires · 16/11/2018 03:44

Ok so you tell us all, why was that criminal on Martin's property at night?

RedneckStumpy · 16/11/2018 03:45

it doesn’t matter what hill billies in the back of beyond do hmm

Yep we have back woods justice on our side

SmashedPatsy · 16/11/2018 03:57

Ok so you tell us all, why was that criminal on Martin's property at night?
Apparently he lived there.

SteamTrainsRealAleandOpenFires · 16/11/2018 04:11

HmmHahahahaha! vvvvv funny. Hmm

I mean barras, as you well know. SO was he there to offer to clean the windows once a week?.

Caprisunorange · 16/11/2018 04:12

It’s not under any dispute at all why the burglars were there. What’s your point?

Sciurus83 · 16/11/2018 04:12

Grotesque. YABVU. I grew up in that community, this happened a mile from my house and he was well known. He shot that CHILD in the back as he was running away and has boasted about it for years. It was not self defence.

SmashedPatsy · 16/11/2018 04:29

SO was he there to offer to clean the windows once a week?
Hahahaha vvvvv funny! Best joke about a dead child all night.

We all know why they were there, for burglary. They were committing a crime when a man, who had already committed a crime in illegally possessing a firearm, killed them, in what

SmashedPatsy · 16/11/2018 04:30

Posted to soon.

...in what was not an act of self defence and was not his first offence with a firearm.

Terribletweens · 16/11/2018 04:41

So if we're saying committing a crime, especially one that affects someone else so badly, puts you beyond protection of the law then can we have some solid rules from the urban judges?

If one of your family drink drives and kills one of mine what can I do to them? Surely I can run them over too? What if they just drive drunk, do I have to wait until they actually hurt someone, they're a criminal already so can't I take my revenge now? Same questions for speeding.

What about if one of your nearest commits fraud and I lose the money I need to house and feed myself and my family? Just how apeshit can I go on them?

Rape? Can I start carrying a weapon in my handbag? Do I cut him up mid act or can I go for the guy who's just started getting 'a bit handsy' - after all he's where he's not supposed to be and can't have good intentions.

Seriously, if you're going to go by 'die by the sword' exactly what lines do you draw? Why are we paying for courts at all then?

StopTheHistrionics · 16/11/2018 05:08

Should Oscar Pistorius have not been convicted then? After all, his defence was that he thought his home was invaded and his culpable homicide conviction was changed to murder on the basis that regardless of who he believed to be behind that door, he intended to kill them and that was murder.

How about the US Police Officer recently who killed a man she said she thought had invaded her home when in fact she was 'confused' and entered his home thinking it was hers.

Seems a number of posters think that this is okay? That if someone comes onto your property or you believe they have, it's okay to kill?

WhoWants2Know · 16/11/2018 05:36

My understanding from people who knew him is that the repeated burglaries were in response to some very provocative viewpoints that he held and would speak about widely. He wasn't just a quiet farmer going about his business.

WhoWants2Know · 16/11/2018 05:53

Also, repeated break ins into a dilapidated property with nothing of value to steal?

I agree that they shouldn't have gone there and they did have previous criminal records. But there was a reason that they went for this particular guy.

DryHeave · 16/11/2018 06:03

I’ve heard him speak about what happened - in person. He had zero remorse.

Sleephead1 · 16/11/2018 06:11

Firstly being burgled must be terrifying and for it to happen more than once is awful. But the people responsible ran away and yes they commited a crime and I don't thunk anyone is disputing the fact they should not have been in his house but he wasn't at immediate risk of harm once they turned and ran. Its no good speculating he may have been tortured ect we have no idea if that would have been the case just as we dint know the circumstances that led to the people being in his house. Yes I'm sure it was dark but this is a man obviously very comfortable with guns and who did know how to use them and had used them previously so he did know what he was doing and if you point a gun in the direction of someone and shoot you know you are risking killing them. I also find it telling that he hasn't shown remorse for killing a 16 year old because let's be honest that would have affected most people pretty badly. To all the people saying they would do the same and kill someone where do you draw the line? Should a shopkeeper who gets broken into kill the shoplifters? The person who clones your card and steals all your money should they kill that person, If you get raped , sexually assaulted should you kill them , if someone drink drives and hits someone should they be killed? If you really believe this what kind of society would we live in if people commit a crime and don't get a trial they just get murdered. I also believe the vast majority of people would do no such thing and probably, freeze/ hide / call the police which is what mostly people do when they get burgled.

MuseumofInnocence · 16/11/2018 06:20

I find those who think that burglars should be killed quite despicable frankly. I don’t want to live in the Wild West but rather a country of laws and justice. Tony Martin murdered someone. I don’t think his conviction should be quashed

BertrandRussell · 16/11/2018 06:32

"He fired towards them, probably in utter panic. Tough luck they were hit in my view."
Yeah. Utter panic. That's why he was sitting up in a chair waiting for them, shot them as they were running away and told lots of people in the area what he was planning to do.

maddiemookins16mum · 16/11/2018 06:36

Blimey, I thought he was dead or released already.

longwayoff · 16/11/2018 06:39

No.

sashh · 16/11/2018 06:39

You should be able to defend yourself with whatever force you deem needed to stop the threat.

OK so next time tyhe kids ride their bikes accross my lawn I'll get the flame thrower out, or maybe some poisonous gas.

DaisysStew · 16/11/2018 06:47

He shot without without warning whilst they were attempting to run away. He was in no immediate danger and it was done purely because he was pissed off with people breaking into his home. Of course the murder conviction should stand.

Robbing someone’s house is a shitty thing to do but that boy didn’t deserve to lose his life over it. We have police and courts to dish out punishments, you can’t just go around handing out your own death sentence to people.