Children giving up their seats..

[whatsthepointthen]

I was on the bus this morning and my 2 children were sat in the seats, this is a small bus and gets very busy. After a few stops an older woman got on and kept loudly bitching that my kids didnt give up their seats and shaking her head.

for context my son fell on this exact bus flat on his back and banged his head on the floor a few months back as he was standing up (and holding on) but the bus whizzed round a corner so now i try to make sure they always get a seat.

Should children always give up their seats for an older person? wibu for not making them?

I'd give up my own seat as it's not safe for little ones to stand up on a moving bus.

StarB3

Another passenger did offer the woman a seat but she didn't want that one.

Pinkkittens292

The OP was standing with her baby in a pushchair so didn't have a seat to offer.

Another passenger did offer the woman a seat but she didn't want that one.

This is the key point. Refusing a seat then continuing to complain is really just bullying a young mum. Not ok at all.

Im sure there were plenty of other people on the bus capable of giving up their seat but i dont think young children should give up seats

That you’re standing with a pram is a decider for me - your DCs should’ve stayed seated.

I’m no good at articulating why, but I would not have expected your DCs to stand.

I’ve also stood on a train so that a circa 6yr old could sit with their adult (the seat next to me was vacant. Strictly speaking I think a few other single seats were “vacant”. But y’know morning trains - bags occupy as many seats as bums).

I put my SDCs (even at late primary age...) on my knee to accommodate people who want a seat on buses, rather than send them to stand. Again, I can’t articulate why!

Pensioners can be very rude about this! If you can make space and your kids are safe then fine but if not then don’t feel any obligation to. Everyone is in charge of their own safety but if we can help each other we will.

Oh I have a new question, why didn't the OP just put both of her kids on her lap instead? 🤔

Or maybe let them hang off her like a mother monkey? 😏

I was going to launch into a tirade about lack of respect being the cause of everything wrong with society but then I thought about it. Back when I was a kid, buses kind of chugged along a bit and they weren't rammed full of passengers. It was completely appropriate for any child above the age of about 5 to stand. If the parent was able then the child would stand between their sitting parent's knees. Under 5 unless parent was already holding a child, the child would sit on parent. Now however the with high powered buses literally careering around bends and buses so packed you are squished in, I don't think kids can always stand. If the bus is crowded, a young child will literally be squashed at butt and elbow height and that's not ok.

@ICantThinkOfANewName

I agree, with the pram and baby somehow squeezed in as well lol. Then the other passenger could have squeezed in next to them.

Sorry, the whole scenario is ridiculous. If it was me with my DDs, then yes, the appropriate action would have been to make room for the lady to sit down.

All of my children have either sat on my lap or gave up their seat for elderly, pregnant or disabled. I would also give up my seat for same people too.

A 6 year old is usually perfectly capable of standing on a bus - learning how to is a useful life lesson. And should certainly be taught to offer up a seat to an elderly person.

Icant quite right.

The mum, holding onto the pram, the 6yo and the 4yo should all be standing for sure.

Disrespectful shits.

Definitely better them than any other adults in the bus.

I stand up for children under about 10 in my commute. So do others.

This is normal where I live.

I would hate to live where some of you do, I bet you're the first to sneer and not help when you see women struggling with pushchairs and stuff too.

Thankfully there aren't too many like that about. You get some adults who ignore but I've never seen this unpleasantness; wanting a little one to stand rather than any one of a number of adults.

I don't understand people sometimes tbh.

Solly, I wonder if that’s it, and also agree with the poster above who suggested that public transport in different areas might differ enough to explain people’s views. Where I live it’s normal for adults to stand so small children can sit. It’s simlly dangerous the other way round.

Here’s a Q for people who think 4yos should stand on the bus- what’s your position on car seats? It seems very odd to me that you’d expect children to stand up, without any support at all, on public transport but insist on car seats when it’s a private car.

When I was growing up children were expected to give their seats to elderly, frail or pregnant people as a matter of courtesy not because their fares were free.

This appears to have fallen by the wayside but I encouraged my children to have manners and my daughter still gives up her seat on the Tube to those who need it. She once went completely out of her way to take a passenger who had fallen ill to the station nearest their home.

When returning from a trip to Italy I observed that my son was the only child on the minibus to wait behind and thank his teachers.

I am very proud of their empathy and manners in a rude and entitled world.

That said, if the OP’s very young child had sustained an injury standing hitherto he needed to be anchored by sitting. Perhaps explaining to the older person might have helped?

There's also the way it gets when crowded. Often adults have nothing to hold on to if they are a bit short, more dangerous for kids.

They are also trapped at a lower height - people pushing to get on can't see them, see it as a gap and push. That can feel suffocating and scary.

Very easy to get separated from adults in these circs too.

Yes people give up seats and for children older than 6 because the risks are obvious and I'm glad it's that way.

I can only believe this is down to different areas rather than anything else, at least I hope so, who knows though.

I would have asked my 6 year old to stand up with me to allow an elderly/pregnant person to sit.

I would have stood up instead so your 6 year old didn't have to.

As would many people round here. It's normal.

I like it this way.

Why it has to be a little kid rather than an able bodied adult is genuinely baffling to me.

London really is great sometimes!

YANBU. Your children are of the age, where for safety, they should be seated. Yes, they don't pay but then neither does she.
Imo only much more able, older children and adults should be offering their seat. She should see that you have your hands full and should be showing you some respect. Why do the majority of adults treat children like second class citizens?

Just because a child doesn't automatically get up and offer their seat doesn't mean they have no manners. My daughter has very good manners, (not just me saying that, she has been complemented on it by strangers). She will be more than fair to others to the point that I have had to tell her in the soft play to take her turn as she lets others push in front. There is a balance between teaching a child to have good manners but also teaching them not to let others take advantage.

I would not expect her to leave her seat and stand on a bus if there were others that could also do the same. I would also not expect someone who was on the bus before us to stand for her (but would thank them if they did).

I’d have had them share a seat, rather than stand. I was taught to stand for adults, particularly the elderly, as a child, in the early 90’s. I remember feeling really grown up and helpful when I did it.

I’ll teach my daughter the same. I think, for standing, the child should be around 7 or so. I wouldn’t expect younger than that to stand.

Whatsthepointthen... I have had this a similar incident happen to me just over a year ago. I was on a bus with my DD (at the time just turned 2, walking pretty well for her age) and my DS (about 1 month old and in his buggy). We were heading for my children's GParents' house, about 4miles' from mine. Bus slowly got more and more crowded at every stop. Initially I was sitting with my DD to help keep her on her seat near the buggy bay. Here I will point out that bus drivers on our route are maniacs. My DD, earnest as is was in her effort to hold onto anything to help herself stay seated, she is not a superhuman that can protect herself from sudden lurches when bus driver uses his brakes unexpectedly, takes speed bumps like they aren't there and swing the bus wildly around corners/roundsbouts. So I either help her to hold on (with my arm around her) or sit on her on my lap (not always the safest idea!). I always let her take the window seat so that feels a bit more secure and she can gaze out the window, try to relax.
Anyway, so on this particular incident 14months ago, I got off my seat not because I was asked or prompted or felt like offering my seat, I had to in order to stop my DS's buggy from falling, even though it was tucked into a tight corner and had the brakes on. I was constantly checking my DD to reassure her she was doing ok, that we were nearly at our destination and constantly praising her for being brave, holding on etc - bus travel used to make her feel understandably nervous. Mr Tall Wide Man in his late 40's took the seat I was in instantly. At the next stop, a lady in her late 70's maybe even early 80's got on with a push-along tartan trolley. I always assume elderly folk keep personal belongings, shopping, their medications, maybe their knitting or a book/newspaper to keep them occupied in those - maybe I am completely wrong here so please accept my apologies here.
Ms Tartan Trolley began hunting for a chair. Bus driver didn't wait for Ms Tartan Trolley to sit down, he pressed on with the journey like demons were after him. There were quite a few silver surfers on board, some of them went to offer Ms Tartan Trolley but she refused. Mr Tall Wide Man didn't vacate his seat for her.
Ms Tartan Trolley asked Mr Tall Wide Man if he would tell his daughter to move. He ignored her, even turned his face away! My DD looked at me suddenly terrified. She knew Ms Tartan Trolley was referring to her. I should mention here that my DD is very fair-skinned compared to me, I am mixed race and I have been asked countless times if she is my biological daughter, to which I always answer she is, that she must have my mum's, great-great grandma's or her daddy's genes, as they all have blue-green eyes.
Anyway, Ms Tartan Trolley, all bristled feathers, turned on me and asked quite haughtily, is she yours, tell her to move - all in one breath, no manners.
Already she was trying to take the space where my DS's buggy was with her trolley, trying to push it into the tightest available gap.
So I did the usual juggling about with buggy and small walking child in a crowded space, made a little safe corner for my DD to stand. Luckily my DS was sleeping like all newborns do, oblivious to noise and faffing about. Only then did Mr Tall Wide Man get up so that Ms Tartan Trolley could take the seat my DD was in. No thank you's were mentioned. I was starting to seethe with anger inside.
More people got the bus. It was starting to get packed. Eventually the demon bus driver asked if all the passengers that were standing could move further along inside the bus. He then asked me if I could fold my buggy. I had to explain I can't really be expected to carry a newborn baby and his changing bag, his buggy and stand with my small daughter without any help. Evidently annoyed he pressed on with the journey. Then, Ms Tartan Trolley piped up saying I don't why these youngsters bother getting on the bus with their buggies, everyone used to walk in my day.
Everyone looked at me. I felt so ashamed and even now, I can't work out why.
I appreciated her comment in one way... it was the truth for one thing. If the weather had been nice at the time, I probably would've walked with my DD on her buggy board. But it was the end of February and the weather was bitter. If I could've walked confidently with the knowledge my 2 year old DD would follow / get on her buggy board for 4 miles without getting tired, I would've done so.
I ignored Ms Tartan Trolley, I was too angry to speak at this point.
Ms Tartan Trolley went on though, asked me why wasn't my DD in school, she should be. Luckily I had a good defence, I told her as politely as possible that my DD was due to start preschool after the February Half Term Break.
Ms Tartan Trolley didn't appear appeased by this. I wonder to this day if she was alright mentally, or did she get out of bed on the wrong side that day. Talking to the window that she was sat next to, she said rather bitterly, you youngsters have got it easy nowadays, you have everything at your fingertips to use and abuse, and you still want to take what's freely available to the elderly, not an ounce of gratitude or respect in your bodies.
Mr Tall Wide Man laughed out loud at that point.
I felt quite affronted as I am never rude, I try to be kind and compassionate to everyone regardless of age, sex or colour.

Ignoring everyone instead shooting daggers with my eyes at Ms Tartan Trolley and Mr Tall Wide Man, I busied myseld with making sure my two children and myseld were well wrapped up. I couldn't wait to get off the bus when it finally pulled up at my stop.
As packed as the bus was that day, no one helped me get off. I had to constantly excuse my way through the crowd, apologising too, while trying to coax my DD to slip past people and follow me. She called out wanting to hold my hand, bless her, but I couldn't get the buggy off the bus one-handed. It was then my DS started crying.... I guess he sensed how was feeling.
I didn't go out on the bus for 2 days after that.

@LifeHasGoneCrazy

So much I’d love to say about your post based on 41 years of public transport but it would be deleted.

I do feel your pain.