Children giving up their seats..

[whatsthepointthen]

I was on the bus this morning and my 2 children were sat in the seats, this is a small bus and gets very busy. After a few stops an older woman got on and kept loudly bitching that my kids didnt give up their seats and shaking her head.

for context my son fell on this exact bus flat on his back and banged his head on the floor a few months back as he was standing up (and holding on) but the bus whizzed round a corner so now i try to make sure they always get a seat.

Should children always give up their seats for an older person? wibu for not making them?

That's a horrible experience, but why would it be any less horrible for an older child or adult?

Not saying it wouldn’t be but as an adult you’d more than likely be emotionally able to deal with something like that happening.

As an adult in charge of a child you’re responsible for their safety and well being as well as your own.

A Child’s safety should come first. No matter whose child.

I wouldn't expect an able-bodied and healthy six year old to have difficulty walking, standing and balancing.

Really? I got the bus home today. No seats available so I had to stand. The bus driver clearly thought he was the new Lewis Hamilton as we were flung around the bus or thrown forward everytime he braked suddenly. I had a difficult time standing up and I think any small child would have lost their balance.

as an adult you’d more than likely be emotionally able to deal with something like that happening

I'm not sure I agree, or understand the basis for this statement. I think emotional resilience varies from individual and can vary at different points in your own life, but those aren't necessarily age-related.

For example, I had an accident (bone fracture) when I was nine, that I pretty much brushed off and recovered well from. I had a similar accident in my early thirties, in a period when I was suffering from severe depression, and it absolutely floored me and knocked my confidence for months. However, if the accidents had happened at different times during my childhood and adulthood, the effects might have been the other way round.

I hope you don't interpret the above as an attempt to minimise your sister's experience; or yours as it must have been frightening for you too.

I'm saying, in short, that I don't think it's as simple as child = emotionally fragile; adult = emotionally resilient.

picnicinnovember I'm in my mid 40s and happy to stand for anyone more vulnerable to injury or less able to hold on or physically stand than me. In not waiting for the day when "at last" I'll be given a seat by someone younger, I'm hoping to be fit to stand as long as possible!

I am lucky not to be frail or vulnerable. It's not about it being "my turn" to get priority and it's vindictive and petty to think, as an adult, "I had to stand as a child, why should 6 year olds now be safer than I was?"

Weetabixandshreddies

If everyone was having difficulties keeping their feet, then clearly the bus was being driven unsafely (or had a fault with its suspension). That's not acceptable for standing passengers of any age.

If child seats are compulsory in cars until the age of 12 (with height exceptions) and seatbelts compulsory for all, I can’t understand why ANYONE should be standing on a bus hurtling along at speed on potholed roads etc. Let alone vulnerable young children. It is madness.

It’s very sad if a six year old is incapable of standing. They should be reminded to offer up a seat to an older, disabled or pregnant adult.

ScreamingValenta

It was a brand new bus. I am quite sure it was the way that it was being driven. Sadly it isn't unusual on this bus route.

Regardless, I didn't feel safe and I'm nearly 50. In no way would a small child have been able to stand safely.

CherryPavlova how sad that you find human biology very sad

The people making silly pronouncements like that presumably haven't bothered actually reading the evidence pisted explaining why children are more vulnerable than adults and prefer "because I say so" as an argument over logic or evidence or engaging their brain.

@CherryPavlova

The point is that it's unsafe for a child of six to stand safely in a bus, I would say that's definitely the case when the mother is otherwise occupied looking after her baby.

Ironic really, wouldn't you say? In a car, a child that age has to be safely strapped into a car seat. (They should be rear facing up to four years old according to new recommendations.) And yet some of you are saying that they should be able to stand safely in a bus???

In a car, a child that age has to be safely strapped into a car seat.

In a car, in the UK, all occupants of any age have to be safely strapped in.

There might, I agree, be valid arguments for all-seater buses, with seat-belts for everyone. But the existence of child-seats isn't proof that it's inherently less safe for children to stand in buses than it is for adults.

haven't bothered actually reading the evidence pisted explaining why children are more vulnerable than adults

I've yet to see any evidence on this thread, in support of either argument (to be fair). We have all posted opinions, with which others are free to agree or disagree.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3400202/ people have posted information about the reasons children are more vulnerable, though you'd have thought a lot of it was general knowledge. I suspect a lot of people are enjoying a bit of selective memory, because most people know that children's heads are proportionally larger and heavier than adults, and their skulls are softer, their skeletal system immature as well as their hand smaller, limiting ability to hold on.

Have a look at the link to an automotive industry paper which details why children are not mini adults and are more vulnerable in any crash.

Children have to be in car seats, not just be strapped in. And a lot of experts reckon that they should be rear facing up to the age of six. But according to some of you, they should be okay to stand on a bus that sways around and stops unexpectedly at times.

@blueskiesandforests

No point in quoting experts here, posters really don't care that children should be safe, quite clearly.

Posted too soon. All some of you seem to be concerned about is that you should be able to sit in a seat that you paid for.

The safety of the vulnerable (not just children) is the responsibility of us all.

We aren't talking about a crash situation, though. In a crash situation, this argument becomes irrelevant, because sitting down wouldn't protect children because they still wouldn't be strapped in or have car seats and would therefore still be vulnerable to impact damage. If a bus came to a sudden halt, a child would slam into the seat in front if sitting down (or possibly be thrown over the top of it).

In a crash, everyone would be vulnerable, child and adult. As I said upthread, there might well be reason to fit buses with seatbelts and ban standing altogether, but that's a different subject.

I kind of think children who are not paying for their seats should give up a seat for someone in their 60s or share. Couldn’t they have stood with you and the pram so they wouldn’t fall or one of them at least?

I personally would be very embarrassed to inconvenience a mum with 3 young children in that way, especially when another passenger had offered me their seat.

And the physiological arguments cut both ways - a search on Google for bone healing brought up this:

Children heal differently. Your child's healing depends on where the fracture is and how severe the break is. For example, a simple buckle fracture will need a plaster cast for 2 to 3 weeks and be almost completely healed in 4 weeks. Children heal in about half the time it takes an adult to heal from a similar injury. [my italics]

Actually, in my case, I would stand myself, it wouldn't occur to me to expect anyone to have to give me their seat, regardless of whether they had paid or not.

OP you said it was a busy bus it would have been nice for everyone if you got your kids to budge up and offered a seat. You also don't know if the older woman has fallen before on a bus which is why she was vocal about seats. So who was sitting in the priority seats? If it is a regular journey there may be a time you would like to be offered a seat for one of your family.

The fact remains that there would have been many other more suitable people people to stand up and offer this woman a seat. Teenagers and people in their 20s, 30s and 40s who are in good health would find it easier to stand than a child aged 4 or 6. As a nearly 40 year old I would prefer to stand than let a 4 or 6 year old child. I think they would be at a greater risk of falling than me. And my motherly instinct would kick in to be perfectly honest.

This rude woman not only decided against asking anyone politely if they would mind letting her sit down, she actually chose to pick on probably the most vunerable people on the bus and say those children should provide her with a seat and be completely rude.

But she was offered a seat by another passenger and turned it down, then went on moaning. That doesn't fit with your theory, does it?

Lizzie48 I don't know if your username reflects your age, but the case we are talking about is of an older woman. I don't think people on this thread in their 40s and 50s are demanding that people give up seats for them (I am not, anyway). The view that some are putting forward is that a child should vacate their seat, or share a seat, if a seat is needed by an elderly person.