To ask you to watch Panorama re Universal Credit

[longwayoff]

God, this looks grim already. Look what we're allowing to happen.

dotty - The phone waits are horrendous aren't they. Someone I work with told me that the system should now recognise the number you ring from if your mobile number is registered on their system and you should be put through to your local office quicker. I'm not sure how true this is but on one occasion when I rang it asked for the clients phone number to be keyed in and I was put through a lot quicker.

Don’t give what you can’t take
If you read my posts I don't 'give' anything other than an argument for people who may fall on hard times. I also did not flounce off having taken offence. I don't take offence, at much.
I gave a view which isn't naïve, young and one dimensional and argue that things are not black and white. I argue that for many people it isn't possible just to 'soldier on'. That is something only experience can bring and yes in my 20s I would have had similar views, which I articulated. At nearly 40 my view has changed as I don't doubt other people's views will. As a woman, who has been left in sole charge of children with SN due to DV, and with a severe and enduring illness, no amount of pep talk will make my situation easier.
Of course I wouldn't want people to take my state of mind and perspective, when they themselves are not me. Maybe they are more resilient, or younger, or stronger, whatever. But I am me and doing my best, and so are many others. Just because they don't currently work, doesn't mean they never will.
FWIW I have spent the last 20 years working to the bone. I am not trying to justify a lifestyle choice. My profession is, too, demanding. But culturally I have made a stance and said no. When government demands on workers produce conditions which are not feasible in the long run, then they must also provide a system to support those people. That is the welfare state. If working conditions and pay were better, then conversely the demand for welfare would reduce.
And also, if it were 50 years ago no I wouldn't think 'I'm too tired to bother'. There would probably have been a closer community where people actually help each other and which would have meant that I found life easier than I do currently, where Home start waiting lists mean I've been on it 2 years, a domestic violence support worker and social services.
I challenged a view, I didn't 'give' anything, and am not unable to 'take' anything either.

What I find on MN is that someone will post a general ‘I like chocolate’ and someone will immediately jump in with a ‘how can you possibly like chocolate you monster - chocolate killed my whole family whilst I watched and burnt down my village’

Whilst their point is valid, and it’s fair enough they hate chocolate, it’s not really a general overview is it?

@steakandkidney
I appreciate your situation sounds horrible. But inferring that I/people shouldn’t be proud of themselves for carrying on in the face of challenge/ adversity, and that my opinion is ’young, or one dimensional’ simply because they don’t match yours, smacks of biterness.

Being disabled=/= lifestyle choices. I didn't choose to have mental health problems. I didn't choose to be homeleess either. I didn't choose to be on a zero hours contract and sometimes earn nothing. My youngest didn't choose to have Fibromyalgia and scoliosis, GAD and PTSD. My mate Dave, who I've known for over 40 years, didn't choose to be born with Downs Syndrome.

An ex of mine has to take blood thinning drugs to stop her having mini strokes. That's not a fucking lifestyle choice either.

Blaming poor people for being poor is what utter cunts do. You're welcome.

Wow I've just watched it on YouTube ( been up all night with insomnia ) and am shocked.

I only know one person here on UC and she is massively struggling to make the money last, she has substance abuse issues and 2 kids and I feel so bad for the kids.
Her family are currently bailing her out but she is not helping herself one bit by moaning about Christmas and then getting drink and drugs the same night.

I was very pleased that the single dad had such a big back payment and I felt awfully sorry for Anthony, the man in the bungalow who was given an eviction notice despite finding a job. I hope this fiasco falls apart at the seams, it will never work.

What happens when millions are migrated over? The system can't cope as it is and the current waiting times are just cruel.

Esther has resigned,Brexit great excuse,more chaos for Uc

Well to be fair her callous 'don't give a toss' attitude and ignorance towards those whose transitions to UC have meant homelessness and hunger demonstrated a total lack of compassion so not a great loss to society, really.
What do all these MPs actually do to earn money once they resign? Funny how they won't have to rely on the same system as everyone else. Is there a job centre just for egocentric politicians who can't hold down a job when they don't like the boss? Honourable attributes indeed.

She hasnt resigned because of Brexit Shes resigned because of UC before the UN report comes out.

DoctorTwo

I know all about UC, unfortunately. So can tell everyone what is coming for them.

I'm a Single Parent, working 30 hours a week, always worked 30 hours a week.

I happen to have old debts from years ago totalling 12000, accrued during and whilst leaving a domestic violence situation.

When I was on Tax Credits and a small amount of HB, my debts were taken at a maximum rate of £3.70 a week. Now I am on Universal Credit, they take my debts at over £30 a week - THIS IS AN INCREASE OF TEN TIMES!! I was never consulted if I could afford these amounts to be taken off my UC at source, I live in a private rented flat in which I am out if I cannot pay the rent. This and other problems with UC have resulted in me having to do some very demeaning things in order to just pay our basic living costs, especially when I hot a 2 pay assessment period (see below, I'm paid 2 weekly)

Everyone always talks about the 5 week wait, but it's not the 5 week wait per se (although yes that does get people into debt from the start), it's all the other 'loopholes' written into UC which are leaving people destitute.

It's these deductions for old debts, which are taken at 40% of a person's allowance to live on. Obviously they are going to eat into the rent money if 40% of what they have to live on is taken.

It's the fact that on UC, people have to pay childcare upfront themselves in order to start or continue work - who on UC has hundreds or thousands just sitting around??!! and often have serious problems getting it reimbursed by UC as compared to tax credits. There is a Parliamentary debate on UC and childcare costs in which a group of women are shown explaining the serious problems they've faced with UC and childcare.

The sanctions regime under UC is much tougher than on legacy benefits. The majority of sanctions are overturned on appeal, but the claimant has weeks or months of no money in the meantime, even if the sanction is proven to be wrong.

One of the worst problems with UC is that anyone who is paid weekly, 4 weekly, 2 weekly , they will at some points during the year, it will LOOK as if they have had 2 wages in one UC 'assessment period' , so it looks as if you've earned too much and the next month you will get NOTHING, or severely reduced UC payments. The government are in effect saying that we know you are low paid and we have agreed you NEED these top ups to live, but 'computer says no' cause your earnings look double.
Child Poverty Action Group are taking dwp to court about this on 28 Nov, cause it's going to hit so many people. On their report 'Rough Justice' (in full if you google), there is an example of a couple both working, where their UC payments over 6 months go from £0 - £1400 , and anything in between. HOW ARE PEOPLE SUPPOSED TO BUDGET?? and many lose hundreds a year. The NHS pays early before Christmas and are one of the biggest employers, so so many people working for NHS will be hit with this 2 pays fiasco just before Christmas every year.

This is not even to mention the hardship and discrimination faced by ill / disabled people on UC, and the loss of some of the disability premiums, including the loss of disability payments for children.

Also the self employed - if you are self employed on UC, your actual earnings won't be taken into account - after one year, they calculate your UC AS IF you've earned between 16,25 or 35 hours at minimum wage (dependent on ages of Children), even if you haven't!!

Only around 20% of people who will eventually be on UC are on it now. A lot of people have no idea what is about to hit them.

I suggest those people judging those on UC learn the facts for themselves, and that everyone affected or empathetic emails their MPs.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3404296-Universial-Credit-Parliamentary-Hearing-of-the-Impact-on-Women

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3395546-Universal-Credit-driving-women-to-prostitution

informative post them agree most have no idea till they become unemployed/ relationship breakdown etc and by then it's to late and then realise what a crap system it is

i have no idea how they get away with the 5 week rule etc and how your suppose to budget, like you said not many have £££ to pay childcare upfront or bridge the payment gap

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/nov/15/exclusive-new-study-links-universal-credit-to-increased-suicide-risk?CMP=share_btn_tw

@themachinestops This system was designed to be cruel by cruel people and it must be overturned.

I'm no fan of mob justice but in the case of McVile and IBS it's fully deserved.

Benefits are here to help support people in need. As it's been said, two people in the same situation might cope totally differently due to various factors.

The main problem with the way benefits for people with children has grown in the last 20 years or so is that it has given the security to allow people to make choices that they wouldn't made otherwise that is not in their best interest long-term.

The level of teenage pregnancy in this country, despite a drop in the last few years, remains significantly higher than the rest of Europe. Too many women get pregnant in the early stage of a relationship because they listen to their heart telling them they want to be a mum no matter what, and know it will be OK because the state will be there to give them the additional income they need to raise their kids.

People who have children before getting any level of education, who have 3cor more children when they were not even in a position to afford one etc...

We were brought up a generation ago that the way to do things best is to them in order, you focused on your education first, got into a serious committed relationship then, got a job ft, saved a bit, ensured your relationship was a stable as possible and then had children.

The security of benefits now means that you can do things as it suits individuals rather than what suits society long term, so something had to be done. The transition will be hard, as change always is, but hopefully it will change the perception of younger people that you have to do what's right rather that what they want when they want it.

swingofthings the programme I saw affected the 2 single guys worse than those with children.

I dispute a generation ago that teenagers were sensible and saved and got married and then had children. There seemed to be more teenage pregnancies than today.

UC was affecting those that had done everything right but due to different circumstances had lost their jobs and needed to claim benefits. These were people who had paid into the system.

Ultimately if companies paid people a proper wage there would be no need for a lot of these benefits.

If you have 2 people in a relationship working and they have 2 children. There should be no need to claim benefits on top to pay for childcare or top up their income because the wages are low.

The problem we have is that we have got used to low wages topped up by the government. If companies paid people a proper wage then their product would have to go up in price and we would be back to the same place we are in at the moment.

UC credit seems like if you have a reasonable intelligence and no disabilities or MH issues, you carefully read your emails everyday and you can wade through the crap without losing your mind and eventually you get another job quite quickly and providing that job pays you on certain days then it shouldn’t affect you too much.

But if you don’t fall exactly into those caterhories you are screwed. The penalties are punitive and the margins are so tight that you cannot make a mistake or miss anything.

Even on the other side of UC we have Landlords who cannot penetrate the UC system to have HB paid directly to them when tenant and LL are in agreement.
It is made so difficult that LLs don’t bother and so we add to the homeless population.

UC affects everyone not just teenagers who decide to have a baby with no support.
I would say they make up the minority of the claimants.

Over and over again I see people on MN trot out the ‘If people were paid a living wage!’, ‘raise minimum wage’ 🤔

Do people really think this is a magic answer? I’m seriously unsure whether
A- they genuinely don’t understand financial economy/ inflation
or
B- just don’t want to acknowledge that this is a totally moot point!

🤔 My very intelligent (regularly published on the subject) finance/economics uni tutor gave a very interesting class on this subject last year and the effects of raising the minimum wage would last (at the most) months before inflation adjusted the economy back to where we are now.

E.g - if you have £30 a month to spend on groceries now, and after wages went up you had £50, rather than you being able to buy more or save money - ASDA would realise everyone now had £50 they would put their prices up a bit!

A smarter argument would be that ‘certain’ professions who should earn more (like carers...etc) have their wages raised whilst shop workers and waitresses (the jobs that are synonymous with low pay and arguably less strenuous than a full time carer role ) be ‘minimum wage’ if you raised everyone it would make no difference long term

I think UC should be outlawed, it simply shouldn't be allowed in the modern world. I feel like we are slowly heading back to the olden days and a decade or less down the line there will be work houses yet again and people living in squalid conditions. People are already using food banks and becoming homeless and this charade has been allowed to happen. It is shocking and is and will make a huge divide between rich and poor. Benefits claimants are already bashed, normally by those that don't even know what it's like to be on the breadline.

People are going to lose out in this system and already are. Not helped by the 6 week wait, spiralling people into debt whilst the try to pay their rent, utility bills and food with nothing for that entire period unless they get a loan, that's right a loan!! That they have to pay back when they finally get their payment. This is working people or non working people.

It's an unfair system created to make a divide. Typical in Tory nature, whilst Theresa May and her cronies look down their noses at us peasants ..

Our family is better off on it and friends who i have discussed with are also better off. Its seems easier to deal with and also since its based of the exact income monthly you are less likely to fall into debt.
Mostly good.
The prescriptions, dental and healthy start no longer available to us is annoying. Im sure that will be updated soon

UC sounds like a nightmare but sadly something had to happen due to too many people abusing the system. Those working 4 days and topping up with tax credits rather than working 5. Those with children in secondary school still only working 26 hours.

Nothing wrong at all claiming UC for a few years until children are at school. With one parent working FY in an average paid job and one working PT, most can make it, then both can work FT when children are at secondary.

But people want to minimise the hours they work even when they can work FT yet still enjoy the same lifestyle than those who do.

The concern is not those who claimed it for a short period of time but those who claimed it fir many years leaving them having gained very little option to better themselves through lack of education/work experience.

MeteorMedow if you had read my post fully you would have seen I covered the points about inflation and the chicken and egg situation we have found ourselves in.

As I also said if you do everything by the book and your wages are paid on certain days then it could work but if you have any form of MH issues or something comes up eg your father has a heart attack 10 minutes before you are about to leave for your appointment or you are just disorganised or forget then things can spiral out of control because the penalties are punitive

@Surfskatefamily So as you're ok, sod everybody else?

Nice bit of "I'm alright Jack" going on there. But that's exactly what they want, divide and conquer.

Not what im saying...i just wonder if igs lack of understanding and people that do not know how to budget monthly rather than weekly

Regarding childcare cost. I've been paying afterschool club monthly in advance since September, it costs me around £100 per month. I duly submitted my childcare costs every months but so far got nothing from them for these costs. Now, i'm not an entitled fucker, so I just accepted that but it would be interesting to find out what their reason might be.

Also, regarding those who get paid weekly will miss out on one payment. I get paid monthly, on the last working day of a month. So far I've been getting UC every other month (not every month) because according to their stupid assessment period rule every other month I get double the wage. I mean got forbid they apply any common sense to it at somehow manage to notice that those two wages have a whole month in between!

One of the older men suffered from fairly severe health problems and the other man was also clearly depressed. If you’ve Never been trained on budgeting or general life skills how the hell are you supposed to balance over a month. Plenty of intelligent people who earn monthly struggle.

Never mind though they’ll just join the homeless on the streets and be easier to ignore.