To wonder how poor I am??

[Imustbemad00]

I know there will be varied responses from really well off, or ridiculously poor. I sort of class myself as low paid but not in poverty but would like opinions.

I have around 1000pcm after paying rent. 2 children. Out of this 1000 by the time I pay bills (council tax, car insurance, broadband, tv, car tax, parking permit, gas and electric) I probably have around 600 left.

That 600 is then for food, after school clubs, day to day stuff, clothes, shoes, and anything else that might come up such as school trips. Also obviously the odd luxury, cinema trips, days out, treats for the kids, birthdays, Xmas, maybe a holiday.

Do I sound really poor? I get by, pay the bills ect. But I really struggle with clothes and stuff, obviously prioritise kids, struggle to get all their bits and then end up never getting anything for myself. Going for a meal or a day out always has to be planned and saved for and obviously I have no savings.

I guess a lot of people are in the same boat.

I really feel for your financial situation op and I think you're getting a tough time on here. Definitions of financial circumstances aside, it sounds like a struggle for you and that's a rubbish feeling. Could you perhaps put a hold on the swimming lessons for 6 months and completely ring fence that money for emergencies? Then pick them back up? You may then have, say, 500quid for if the worst happens.

Totally understand that pp's consider swimming to be a luxury, which I guess it is, but completely agree that it's worth trying to cover if doable. That said, once your children have learnt to swim and are comfortable in the water, a regular 'free swim' will help them maintain the skills learned, surely? Might take pressure off a little bit?

Well I don't think you're well off at all but I see the usual competitive misery got underway pretty quickly. Honestly, I think there are people on this site who take some sort of grim pleasure from never having anything unless it's from the charity shop and stretching every meal with lentils. There's a real "no better than you ought to be, know your place" vibe on so many of these threads with a lot of necessity tarted up as virtue thrown in for good measure .

IMO it's ridiculous that in 2018 in a wealthy country anyone should be told they're lucky to have a roof over their head and food to eat but on MN it seems that wanting anything more than just the basics is a moral failing and buying an occasional coffee or a magazine makes you a silly profligate! It may well be normal for a lot of people but I'll never get my head around the attitude from some on this site that it's perfectly acceptable and that suggesting it's not makes you unreasonable.

£138 a week for food, toiletries and clothes for 3 people is fine - there isn't a huge flexibility there but you aren't scrabbling around. Some unexpected expense would be a real struggle i'd have thought.

That's not poor. After bills and one food shop I have £24 left for the month.

I think what you are feeling is relative poverty rather than absolute poverty. The equality trust web site is worth a read as to why very unequal societies are bad for everyone.

Have you watched Professor Green’s Documentary on poverty OP? Now the families on that are poor and might be a good starting point for you to compare with. Living for years in a hostel, moving lightbulbs around the house as no money to buy more and to ensure no extra electric gets wasted. It was heartbreaking and I still think about those families now and hope a secret millionaire was watching to help them out.
Compared to that, I don’t think you are poor but I think you need to try to build a cushion to help you feel more secure. We have about the same income and I make sure I transfer money into my savings as soon as it comes in, one into an ISA, the other into an e savings. The ISA I try desperately not to touch, the e savings can be transferred back but because I have to think about it, I am more conscious with my spending. You sound like a fab mum, putting your kids first.

I’ve done both the calculators pp’s have posted links to, based on the figures you’ve given.

According to the IFS calculator you’re in the second decile, around 16% of the UK population have a lower income than you (taking into account family size)

The guardian describes you as on the edge of poverty, which I think is fairly appropriate, you aren’t living in poverty as it stands, but you have very little safety net in your income so it wouldn’t take much of a change in your circumstances to push you into poverty.

But at the same time I think this: “. Also obviously the odd luxury, cinema trips, days out, treats for the kids, birthdays, Xmas, maybe a holiday. ” makes you sound entitled.
And in my opinion you aren’t teaching your children - by the sounds of what you’ve said your teenager especially- a good attitude to money. I think it’s MUCH more important to save money so you’ve got a safety net in case an unexpected essential bill crops up than to buy your teenager new clothes just because they don’t want their friends to see them wearing the same clothes all the time etc

It really comes down to expectation of lifestyle. Some people on low income seem to expect more luxuries than people earning a lot more.

I have a colleague who always complain of being skint. She is on a low income, yet goes shopping for new clothes in trendy shops almost every month, with the excuse that she had put on weight, lost weight, needs new clothes for new season, has nothing to wear and will only occasionally admit that she loves shopping. She buys expensive make up product because in her views, these are essentials to take care of her skin. She goes out to dinners regularly but she can't help it because she has many friends and family members who invite her and she can't say no. She still pay for her adult working children's expensive mobile she got them for Xmas because she loves treating them. All those things she considers normal spend that all working people should be able to afford.

I earn double her salary but all those things are luxuries to me. I could afford them but I don't need them and prefer to save into investment for the future. My weakness is nice holidays which is clearly a luxury but I do consider it as such rather than a due for working a demanding job.

Well you've got more than me and considerably less than some others. So what?
Why is it a competition?

If you need to ask on Mumsnet whether you're poor or not, you're not. Hope you never are

You sound comfortable to me. We have quite a bit less and I still think we’re comfortable because we can always eat, clothe ourselves, heat the house etc and if times are hard we are reducing luxuries like fun weekend activities not basics like food.

You are not well off but also not poor. You sound similar to us tbh. We can comfortably afford our mortgage, bills and food but don't have that much left for ourselves. I rarely buy clothes and we are careful when we go out not to spend too much. I do save for Xmas throughout the year tho so I am definitely not 'poor'.

Sorry if someone already posted this bit the Supreme Court referred to this calculator in deciding what was an acceptable standard of living. Ifpunf it interesting. You can adjust some of the figures to put in your actual expenses. It suggested my household needs £60,000 to have an acceptable standard of living as judged by the public at large,

www.jrf.org.uk/minimum-income-calculator-do-you-earn-enough-decent-standard-living

What kind of house are you, do you feel happy there? I ask because when we felt really poor was when we lived somewhere horrible without any space. Now we have a much bigger place we feel richer despite not having any more money. We also save money by having friends round a lot rather than meeting for coffee/drink etc. I think it also depends who your comparison is. I don’t see my old London friends who are lawyers and bankers anymore. We don’t have anything in common. I wish them well but I’ve chosen a different life. Also, how much free time do you have? Again, if you feel you have no money or time that will be worse than if you have a not stressful job with lots of free evenings and weekends.

I'd say that is a low income. Do you get tax credits OP?

You have the same as me only I'm saving £200 pm out of that. To put the amount in to perspective, I'm on income support, tax credits and child benefit. I get pupil premium for my children. The money I save is child maintenance. So you're just above basic benefit level for 1 adult and 2 children.

I don't feel poor, I'm not on the bones of my arse, but that's due to the choices I make. Same as it is for you I'd guess.

You're not exactly in poverty but I would class that as poor. Op you sound like you know how to budget well to get most of what you want out of a fairly small amount of money.
You do well to stretch the money to do activities, treats and go on holiday, however personally I wouldn't go bother going out for meals/cinema even occasionally whilst you have no savings, I would rather save that little bit of money. Any unexpected bills could create debts which would be very scary on that amount of money.

That calculator is interesting. Apparently I need an income of £30k for a decent standard of living. Mine is £20k currently and I feel pretty comfortable although I do not have much to put aside in savings. If I was earning £30k I'd just put the extra into my pension fund.

Hang on, I retract that. I'm also paying bills out of that amount.

Still though, not a high income but not poor. But that's just down to your budgeting I suspect. I'm good at budgeting, my money goes a lot further than most people's.

I wish I could save. I try, I put money in a seperate account every month but I always have to take it back out.
I really don’t think that wanting to take my kids to the cinema occasionally, but them clothes they need (winter clothes ect) or birthday and Xmas presents, makes me entitled. When I said holidays I was talking I’m caravan breaks.
I will look at what I’m spending on wasteful things but I honestly don’t think I’m can be described as comfortable unless I’m seriously missing something. I have enough to get buy. Get the essentials. But aren’t clothes essentials too?

Our compulsory school blazer is £35, the skirt £30, the trousers £19, the tie £10. PE kit is also compulsory logo top, shorts, hooded top, jogging bottoms, you have to pay to have them initialed. No second hand uniform shop. Trousers changed last year, skirt three years ago, so limited options to pick up second hand elsewhere. So yes I can well imagine how the op might have to spend £500 on school uniform.

I don’t think I’m terroble with budgeting. I have a pretty good chart of all monthly bills and left overs and a box for any extras that month. I then work out what I have left over which is usually not very much.

Single mum here
Two children
I would seriously struggle on £600 a month for you have listed.
So I definitely fall in the camp that sympathises

Also nobody else to help with clothing the children, buying their birthday gifts. I could stop be swimming lessons but my child nearly drowned and to be honest it seems important. The childcare clubs I do get help with but those costs are included in the monthly figure.

With the saving, I'd try putting a bit less in but resolving absolutely not to touch it. See if you can find the balance where you can keep what you save, even if it's a small amount. The key is not to touch it ever and then it will build up.