Do you think that the thousand of young men who laid down their lives for this country would be proud of doing so now

[teacherspet]

Just that really, there is so much greed, grabbyness, laziness and violence in the country. I can't imagine that those very young men who marched into almost certain death would feel that it was worth it.

I imagine seeing their descendants living in a safe, free society with some of the worlds best facilities available they would be very happy.

You do realise that the alternative was nazism right?

I was thinking of the first world war specifically, not the second world war.

Yes. My brother would be proud that he laid his life down for his country.

We are what we are. And we haven't been under nazi rule. They didn't die thinking it would lead to utopia.

Your question is quite offensive. Non of them laid down their lives with conditions attached.

A lot of them were conscripted and forced to go. So not sure they were that keen on the country at that point either.

And to be fair, many ‘laid down their lives’ unwillingly. Conscription didn’t leave much choice.

Sorry should make clear my brother died in Afghan. Not a world war. But I sure the thought behind the sacrifice is the same.

About 1 today a footballer was talking about someone who joined up in the Footballers Army Battalion, omg I was so shocked at his sense of entitlement. How he said no one he knew would be willing to do far less nowerdays. Radio one.

Sorry for your loss Notaclue and I’m thankful people like him signed up

Most of them were young working class boys and men who were forced to due to conscription. They all died fighting someone else's war.

I found the opening post rather judgemental and goady

Supporting freedom means that people can make all sorts of houses, good, bad or indifferent. Fighting for the right to choose has sod all to do with subjective value judgemenents on the nature of the choices that people actually make,.

Just like they're free to wear a poppy. Or not. Or commemorate the Armistice. Or not

Many were lied to about the war in that it was just a quick jaunt and would be over by Christmas, when the lies stopped working they were conscripted.

"So not sure they were that keen on the country at that point either."

so this ^

I don't know, and while I'm not British, I was thinking of this this week. My great granddad died in war in 1918, a poor carpenter, leaving behind a widow and small children. I don't know what he'd think of modern life, but I think he'd be proud to know his tiniest baby girl worked hard during days and studied hard during nights, and got herself an education, a good job, and a family of her own who, though not rich, never had to see the hardship he did. And that his grandson went to university and could have a life style and life he must not have even imagined, and that his children in turn could pick out where to study and make their lives out of the whole world - not just where they were born. I hope he'd be proud of my awesome nephews, who are growing up secure and happy, well fed and warm, and are altogether great kids.

I'm sorry for your loss notaclue. My son is in the Army. I agree yiskasha, seeing the pictures of them in the trenches, their life was entirely vile for years, not just a couple of weeks. I'm finding it all quite distressing.

I don’t think they were proud to lay down their lives at the time.
I think they felt duty bound and probably very sad and resigned and a bit angry and depressed about it all. It was utterly tragic. But once young men had begun to die I guess others would have felt cowardly not to join them.

Gonewishing that is a fabulous, he would be proud of his descendants.

Yes, because the world we live in now is such a shambles compared to 1914.

Women have the right to vote, and to have a job. Homosexuals don’t face prison and condemnation. Children have a right to an education. Healthcare is free for all. The poor don’t live in total squalor before dying from hunger.

Yeah, I hear you OP, life in Edwardian Britain was soooo much better for most people.

Perhaps you should educate yourself as to how life truly was, before making ridiculous statements?

Remember the WWI poetry? War at that time was still 'sold' as a glorious and manly undertaking. It was in a time of Imperialism too, surrounded by imperial propaganda. I'm not sure that many of them felt it was 'worth it' to be honest, for many it might have been an adventure-gone-wrong or the only living they could earn.

Life today in this country is better than its ever been. We have an unprecedented level of equality between the sexes, we are a much less racist nation, our oppressive and exploitative empire has ended, we are better educated, we have free healthcare. We have a very long way to go, but we are a better nation now than we were then.

And your post is misinformed. Hundreds of thousands of young men died in a war they were forced against their will to fight in, and which many would have chosen not to be a part of. I think many of them would be grateful that the barbaric process of conscription is no longer a part of our nation.

I suppose that conscription makes a difference. I grew up in Australia where there was no conscription in either war and no immediate threat to Australia until the later stage of WW2. Men and women still proudly went to their deaths fights for what they believed was right. And while Britain does have a lot of problems, welfarism, lack of education, perhaps too inwards looking etc it is still very much a liberal country where individual freedom and the rule of law are revered principles by which we live. Maybe many people take advantage of this but that isn’t the point. The point is that it even exists at all. There was a point between around 1900 and 1980 when it wasn’t clear what direction the West was headed. What the two world wars dies illustrate was that the men and women who went to fight believed in living on their own terms or not living at all and that is a noble sentiment the effects of which reach far beyond the grave. People say that they wouldn’t fight today but do you really think this country would just roll over and give up if again threatened by an existential threat? I don’t. Perhaps this country isn’t as liberal as it once was in a way but I think that the freedom that we have all (selfishly perhaps) enjoyed is something that we wouldn’t give up.

I find it a bit distateful to suggest lots of the young men who died in the first world war on either side made a choice to sacrifice themselves for a better future for their descendants.
I'm sure individual soldiers went to war for a variety of reasons....but this wasnt a good Vs evil type situation. It was very rich powerful men trying to get more power. And the masses had no choice but to go along with it..... or you'd be called a coward or worse.

I hope those young men would look at today and be amazed by our personal freedom and the sheer amount of information avaible to everyone. I also hope that due to this our children will not be put in a similar position

The first world war was just one big diplomatic domino effect mistake, nobody was laying down their life for ideals of freedom and a way of life at the beginning!

I don't think they were proud of doing so then. I think they were probably tired and cold and scared

Lets not forget those that were pressured in to enlisting by the order of the white feather.

My grandad was 16 in 1914, but he and his friends friend lied to join up because they thought they were going on an exciting adventure.

He obviously managed to survive the war and met my grandma when he went to tell her family their son, one of his friends had been killed.

He never really talked about the war because in those days people just gone on with their lives the best they could without all the 'woe is me' attitude nowadays.

He was a good, kind decent man who lead a simple life, worked hard for his family and never complained.

Would he do it again? Yes of course because he would have seen it as his duty to protect his family.