Do you think that the thousand of young men who laid down their lives for this country would be proud of doing so now

[teacherspet]

Just that really, there is so much greed, grabbyness, laziness and violence in the country. I can't imagine that those very young men who marched into almost certain death would feel that it was worth it.

It has always been the poor who fought in war and were conscripted. No I don’t think the young would join up like they did in 1914-18 and quite frankly why should they.

Tony Blair took us into an illegal war. Most of the wars and invasions in recent years have been over oil.

In WW1 they didn’t have a choice they do today.

Not just the poor, though obviously far more, because there were far more people than rich. Lots of rich young men were killed in the First World War, including the son of the then Prime Minister.

And worth remembering that members of the Royal Family served in the Falklands and Afghanistan.

Statistically the rank that lost most lives proportionate to numbers was that of 2nd lieutenants up to captain, ie, young officers, so not working class men, middle and upper class.

Life expectancy of a 2nd lieutenant was weeks.

My grandmas brother died during the first world war, he was 19 and his name is engraved into the memorial where my mum still lives.
Very sad times.

When I think about them I imagine their last moments weren’t filled with pride and humility about their noble sacrifice, but with primal terror and desperation, and perhaps the horrifying realisation that they were a tiny pawn in someone else’s game.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Conscription didn't leave much choice...I'm sure many would much rather NOT have marched to their death. But for those who did willingly lay down their lives, I'm sure they'd be happy that we live in a generally free and safe life.

I went to see the Peter Jackson film They Shall Not Grow Old yesterday. It’s brilliant!
It’s narrated by actual soldiers from WW1-they were recorded years ago I think, and they’ve used those recordings over the images.
At the end it’s amazing that even though they hated the death, the mud, the fear etc, they all said that they wouldn’t have missed it for anything. They would have been devastated if they couldn’t have gone, if they had ‘missed it’.
They also said that although they hated the discipline the first 6 weeks of army life changed them. Most of the lads gained a stone and were an inch taller after the 6 weeks!
You see, life was so hard then. They didn’t have enough food in everyday life, so many were malnourished, had vitamin deficiencies, terrible sanitation, squalid lives...you can’t look back through our lens now.
Yes, it was a vicious, pointless slaughter.
The ‘Tommy’ soldiers were the bottom of the heap. The junior officers (from middle class backgrounds) were practically guaranteed death or injury. But life in general was ‘harder’ then.
We have health and safety at work, bloody electricity, NHS, a (fairly) fair judicial system and the class system whilst it undoubtedly still exists cannot exclude people always in the way they did then.
Terribly sad they died for nothing, but you can’t compare them and now.

The OP is a fool. You can see that by her use of the word 'grabby'. What does that mean? To me 'grabby' and the Mumsnet twin word 'entitled' means people who insist on their due.

People 100 years ago or even 50 or 30 years ago were not in a position to expect things that we regard as completely normal now.

But we're still arguing for it now.

I 'm not claiming that the young men who died in WWI sacrificed their lives for a better future for us all. They didn't. They just died. But the experiences of men and women who survived that war contributed to enormous political and societal upheaval in Britain that continues to this day.

Unlike the OP I think that's a good thing

No one is “proud” to be killed. Especially as the First World War was kind of a pointless slaughter.

54% were not conscripts, though.

I imagine being fed and clothed was an attraction for some.

Remembrance

Poppies line up in faded rows
Pinned to breasts that swell with pride.
Creaking limbs and crooked backs
Dusty comrades, side by side.

What is it that they remember
This dwindling crew, this ragged band?
Can they still dredge up the picture
Of events long past, of another land?

But every year they make their way
From faded mansions, council flats
With demob suits and Brylcremed hair
Regimental ties and breast-clutched hats.

And children at school in straggling groups
Are torn from lessons scuffling and yawning
To listen to the tale of slaughter
And have their turn to share the mourning.

And what is this remembrance for
When nothing changes? Can it make sense
For lists of dead and former carnage
To meddle with their innocence?

And here the great and good and rich
Stand in line just as they ought.
Lowered heads and furtive glances
Seeking the best camera shot.

But it is they who bear the guilt
Of taking new young men to war
To feign the image of true statesmen
And make their mark on history's score.

And all around the towns and hamlets
Is touted yearly “Lest we forget”
But it is clear we have forgotten
For nothing new has happened yet.

So let us forget and free our hearts
From inherited guilt and hand-me-down pain.
Claim the future for our children
And seize the chance to start again.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-46168105

WTF, how can it be that Britain hasn't sent a representative to Paris? Good old Donnie is even there.

My grandfather, granted he survived but with shell shock and other MH issues,had a wise way of looking at this

Many many years ago he was told by someone who was homophobic that this isn't what he fought for and his view was this

He fought to protect , whatever reason he went to war , he couldn't think about it , he simply focused on protecting his family and his country and to survive he couldnt allow himself to think about the why, He didn't question how people lived their lives just that at that time his job was to protect their life and their home

He also then gave out to this person for using his service as a way to judge other people...he actually filleted them and pointed out he was more offended that people used his service to beat down other people just because they had decided they were in the right

The man was an entirely uneducated carpenter who was the wisest man I think I've ever known

You think those things didn't exist in 1914?

Who knows whether they would now or did then.

I expect lots of them would be annoyed to see gay marriage, divorce and black immigrants.

Pointless goady thread.

I always thought this was very poignant

Exactly.

We - he has summed it up neatly. And nothing has changed.

You have to take into account what some of their lives were like at home too...

My family who were in WWI were all coal miners. Their day to day lives were hard and the average life expectancy for them was around 35-40. They were down the pits every day from about 14 and generally died pretty horrible drawn out deaths with lung disease.

While WWI was underway two of our family died in a pit disaster (they weren't fighting as they were 50 and 15!).

What on Earth makes you think they were all proud then.
I hate that war ends up being romanticised

Didn’t the last Tommy say, that he thought it was all such a useless waste.
All those soldiers thrown on the scrap heap afterwards.

@Mummy2017

That would be Walter Tull a great solider and man who was black, and whose family still hasn't received his medal for his actions.

This post is utter tripe.

Even now, if there was the same real risk of being invaded, losing our homes, maybe even our lives, with the only viable alternative being to take direct action, join up, and fight, then yes, I think people would be willing to fight to try to save our lifestyles and freedoms and families.

Despite what people may think about today's society, when bad things happen, people come together. I saw it first hand in Storm Desmond when people's homes were flooded, when they were stranded due to no public transport, when they had no food. The whole community, local businesses, local people, etc all worked together to help out until the authorities got their act together.

The Peter Jackson film is being shown on BBC2 tonight at 9:30pm, called "They Shall Not Grow Old".

The Radio 4 series is very interesting and moving. Interviews with WW1 veterans so you hear their own thoughts and opinions about the war. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03thb2s