To be suspicious about the validity of this Will?

[Blueberryhill123]

I probably should've posted in Legal but posted here for traffic.
My Mum and I were discussing Wills recently, when the subject of my Grandfather's Will came up. (My GF passed away in 2000, and my Mum was excluded from his Will). She'd never received a copy of the Will and only briefly glanced at a typed copy of GF's Will just after his funeral, when my Aunt quickly showed it to her.
Out of curiosity I recently decided to download a copy of my GF's Will, but now I've done so it's playing on mind that something doesn't seem right with it.
GF's Will is home made and handwritten (done in 1987) and the Executor and sole Beneficiary (apart from us six Grandchildren) was my Aunt, which we already knew. I was, however, surprised to learn there was no mention at all of my mum in the Will, not even to say why she'd been excluded.

Long story short, there'd been a family rift where mum didn't see her dad for a few years prior to and after the Will was written, although in the last few years of GF's life the rift was healed. My mum never spoke of Wills with my GF (her mum had passed away years before) and accepted the terms of the Will when my GF passed away. After all, the Will had been done and not altered.

Six of us Grandchildren (my sis and I and my Aunt's four dc's) each received £2,000 from our GF's Will. My Aunt was bequeathed GF's house, boat, caravan, car and 'all the rest of the property he owned'.
The Will may very well be perfectly legal, but, I'm suspicious that the witness signature's look extremely similar by the style of writing, punctuations, same pen pressure, slant etc.
The witnesses are also my Aunt"s friends.

I showed a copy of the Will to my Mum, who recognised the wording of the Will as my Aunt's, which I'm presuming is allowed, as long as my Grandfather signed it. My mum is also quite suspicious of the witness signature's. Mum also couldn't imagine my GF wanting to have my Aunt's friends as witnesses.
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but my Aunt has benefited hugely (I believe my GF also had a substantial amount of money in his accounts from receiving a great pension and never really going anywhere to spend it, which my Aunt also had) and I can't help wondering if something is amiss. Mum is equally suspicious.
Any advice appreciated.

Probate values are conservative.

Daft question, but if a Will goes through probate, does this mean that the Witnesses would've also been asked to confirm in front of Solicitor that they'd signed the Will?

It short no.

*in

More I think about it, it's obviously no as the Witnesses could've died.
I asked mainly because there's a note at the bottom of the Will saying 'affidavit of due execution filed 199*'

I presumed because it's a home made Will, the witnesses to my GF's Will may have been asked to confirm either in the presence of a Solicitor, or by other means that they definitely signed the Will at the same time my Grandfather did.

.

I went to see a Solicitor for a free 20 min consultation, she said she could see why I'm suspicious of the Will, and agreed the signature's looked questionable.

I was advised to try and find out if an affidavit was really filed, and maybe contact the witnesses themselves, to ask about their signatures, if my Mum and I personally know them.

I contacted the Probate registry to ask if there was an affidavit, but was told I will have to write to the head probate officer and explain any suspicions regarding the Will, before the Officer will decide whether or not to look into anything.
In the meantime, my Mum and I have decided to contact the witnesses and will try and tactfully ask them about my GF's Will.
I'm just a little concerned that, because they're friends of my Aunt's (not really close I don't think though) whether they may admit to signing even if they didn't.

Any tips on the best way to approach and question the Witneses appreciated!

Ask the friends separately if they signed the will, and who the other person witnessing your GF’s signature was (you could say you can’t tell from the poor copy). They should be able to name each other if both were present.

There is a possibility they may not even be aware of this will. Your auntie may have just used their names and forged signatures without their knowledge. If your auntie did this, you might be able to get the friends on your side to contest the will on the grounds that the witnesses’ signatures were fraudulent.

AmayaBuzzbee
Good idea about asking about the other's signature. I'll cover one witnesses signature up when showing a copy of the Will, to see if each witness confirms who else signed.

I have witnessed things in the past and tbh I wouldn’t remember who for and what. Wondering if I should refuse going forward .

But Jennifer, I'm sure you'd know IF someone forged your signature though.

Does your grandfather's signature look OK?

OP the Grant of Probate will show the size of the estate, as you have said. Is it possible that your GF put the house in joint names with your aunt? Then it would pass to her automatically outside of the will provisions.

Assuming you can afford it, since you are clearly bothered by this I suggest you find a solicitor who is a member of ACTAPS (Association of Contentious Trust and Probate Solicitors) and see how much they will charge you for an initial interview.

Deepan, I can't recall seeing my GF's signature previously really, but my Mum isn't convinced the signature is definitely his anyway, although she's not certain.

The signature appears as if it's been written very 'slowly' (as do the witness signatures), I've been reading up on signs of forgery, and there seems to be a good deal of odd things about them which 'tally' with signs to look for.

Choc, with regards to my GF's house, I've downloaded the title ownership from the Land registry and the house is still officially
solely in my Grandad's name, which I find strange also. Why hasn't the ownership been changed after all these years I wonder.

So I'm presuming GF's house must've also gone through probate, yet I can't understand why his estate was supposedly less than '£70,000' when we know his house alone would've been worth more.

I would suggest that a solicitor contacts the witnesses, not you. Costs but may be worth it should the validity of the will eventually be challenged.

I see what you're saying ForalltheSaints, but there's a possibility the witnesses may not bother to reply to a Solicitor's letter.

I really want to try and see for myself what the witnesses say before they have a chance to contact my Aunt, should they decide to if they firstly just receive a letter.

Don’t cover it up use a piece of paper to cover it and photocopy it.

I would also record and or film the meeting and bring witnesses.

Bare in mind even if you catch them in a lie you are tipping your hand and they’ll have a chance to get the story straight ahead of any official investigation.

Even IF their signatures are genuine, if any witness admits to signing whilst not in the presence of my Grand dad then the will is invalid.
I'd thought about recording, unsure whether it's legal to record someone without their knowledge though

Have you considered whether this will was his most recent one? As he made it in 1987 and reconciled with your mother before his death in 2000 and had capacity right to the end it is possible he made a new will, which potentially included your mother. If it was made at home, your aunt may have conveniently lost it, destroyed it etc as the 1987 will favours her. Would he have consulted a solicitor to make a new one? Do you know which solicitor he used for other matters? You could write to firms local to him to ask if they have a will stored, or any records about a will being made, and consider a will search on Certainty the National Will register (which you have to pay for and it's not widely used yet) so I would try the local solicitors first.

Cyclebird
I wouldn't put it past my Aunt to have destroyed any will which didn't favour her, given half the chance.
Especially so IF the Will I downloaded isn't genuine.
I hadn't thought about contacting all Solicitors, but I'll suggest that to Mum and that could also be an option to do.

On saying that, my GF, even though he had a car, didn't venture out much at all, and he probably just trusted my Aunt to take care of any of his affairs.

It is very odd Op, that the house is still in your Grandfather’s name. I would have thought your Aunt would have put that into her name straight away. I went through probate after my dad died and was left everything and his house was put into my name, at the end of the process. I agree with Cyclebird too, you need to look for the solicitor that was used. I had a terrible time locating the solicitor my dad used for his will...and he made 2 or 3 drafts over the years. Good luck.

Tweez, I've been racking my brains trying to figure out why my Aunt hasn't taken my GF's name off the title deeds, it's not as if it's also in her name and she hasn't got around to it.

OP the Grant of Probate will say at the top of it if a firm of solicitors applied for the grant or if it was taken out personally by your aunt (I suspect the latter). As the house remains in your grandfather's name I wonder if your aunt actually declared it for probate/inheritance tax.

The tax free allowance for 2000 was £231k or £234k depending on which tax year your grandfather died. If the value of the whole estate was above that then she should have paid tax on the excess.

I have just seen your bit about the affidavit of due execution and that seems odd, too. Why would the affidavit have been filed in 199* when the death did not occur until 2000? I don't see how it could have been filed with the probate registry prior to an application for a grant, though it could have been prepared and signed in advance. In fact it is quite usual to prepare such a thing in advance if there is anything odd looking on the face of the will. This means that if the witnesses have died in the meantime there is something to fall back on. But it would be odd for a lay person to think to do such a thing - normally it would be a firm of solicitors looking at the will and saying "that looks odd and the probate registry is bound to query it so let's get all our ducks in a row now". It would also be odd to get it done in the 1990s when the will was made in 1987. Why was it not done then?

Chocofcheese

The will must've been stored at a Solicitors I'm presuming, as the grant does say it was extracted by 'so and so' Solicitors.
I've just wondered if my Aunt did file a will, maybe without my gf knowing?

Could he have still made a different will and either had it at home or filed it with a totally different Solicitor I wonder.
I can't fathom out why there's all these different dates for one thing or another , I presumed that an affidavit would be filed (if need be) after a testator's death.
As for my GF's estate, the value (I'm presuming) may have fallen just under the tax bracket, so I'd imagine his house would've gone through probate.