To ask when does someone stop deserving slack for being a troubled soul and simply deserve being left for being a plain old fashioned bastard?

[bluetrampolines]

Ive intentionally posted in aibu ratger than relationships because i figure this is a busy place and you will all have an idea that could help me understand.

When does someone stop deserving slack for being a troubled soul and simply deserve being left for being a plain old fashioned bastard?

If you're asking this question then you know the answer.

There is a definite different between any disorder and abuse. Abusive ppl will not as a rule be as our of order and generally seemingly able to co trol themselves outside and to get what they want.
Ppl with disorders suffer themselves. Abusers blame their suffering on others.
Abusers use threats to get their way, or hoovering after the event to pull the survivor back in.
They use their 'disorder' to get sympathy, but never so anything to address it themselves

Bit harsh there gofor
Being continually blamed can make it extremely difficult to really 'know' quite what it is, and its very usual to start with this type of self-questionning, believing they might be the unreasonable one.

Hope you’ve got some marshmallows handy because you’re about to get flamed...

My abuser projected his symptoms onto me. He in no way excused his behaviour because of course he did not think his behaviour was wrong.

A personality disorder is never an excuse to abuse others. If someone is hurting you they're choosing to do that

That sounds exactly the same as abuse.
It's a phalasy that drink makes one abusive, it doesn't, being a psychopath does not make you abusive, neither does a PD, being entitled misogynist makes abusers, they blame, deny, minimise.

And then pity me I have a PD, or, I was drunk, or, if you didn't do that I wouldnt have had to shout/throw things/hit you

Medically (medic here) the difference is whether or not the personality disorder is impairing function.

Just because the person has a PD though doesnt mean they are not a bastard(!)

The reason for someone's ill treatment of you ought not to matter. You should be kind to yourself and if possible remove yourself from the relationship if you feel it is damaging.

Good luck OP :)

I watch the Teen Mom programme which now has Bristol Palin in it. She was married to someone with PTSD, divorced now and this plays out over the show.

Below is a summary from the Washington Post of how her husband thinks he deserves a medal for saying sorry every time he abuses her.

"Bristol said she knows that Dakota suffers from PTSD, but he takes his anxiety out on her and she can’t handle it — she doesn’t want her kids to think that’s what marriage looks like. Dakota responded that he feels terrible that he’s said some awful things but that he relives his fellow servicemen dying in front of him every single day, and he wished Bristol could understand his pain."

I have anxiety. Not, oh no it might rain tomorrow anxiety, proper full blown we're going to die and it's all going to be my fault because of x,y,z anxiety. I am a nightmare when it's high, but that is symptoms. Not me being a dick intentionally. There's a huge difference and anyone who uses an illness to manipulate is indeed a bastard.

Oh Sauvage, that is really interesting.

So how do you decide if their ability to process is impaired or if they are choosing to behave badly?

When they refuse to seek help or recognise that there is a problem and that they are impacting other people.

Abusive behaviour can arise as a result of mental illness. What’s important is that the person exhibiting that behaviour acknowledges that it’s wrong and seeks treatment.

It can also arise when someone has grown up in an abusive household and has had those behaviours presented as normal, and knows no different. Again it is imperative that they ask for help to deal with these issues.

Some people are just out and out bastards.

IMO most people who are abusive do it because they know no better or because they have a problem.

That does not mean anyone has to put up with their behaviour. If you are unhappy then you should leave. If you are in immediate danger then call the police!

It's almost impossible (and perhaps not helpful) to try to distinguish.

What should matter is you. You shouldn't have to put up with abusive behaviour regardless of the cause.

If you are living with this person it might be a good idea to contact a local woman's service to discuss the situation. It might make you feel better just having someone objective to talk to.

Women's Aid and the police have helped me a lot. I just find it interesting.

Functional impairment bit of a red. Herring, and you are already looking now to see if his 'illness'.
Illness or not, is not about abuse
Abuse is abuse.
Ppl have PD and are not abusive, they struggle they dont blame others.
Also, If you've just had enough that's completely alright too!

Oh? What are you finding interesting? Haven't WA already said these things to you?

...and the police have already been involved...in what capacity?

PDs are really complex - they are defined mostly by the interpersonal dysfunction they cause. I work with PD as a therapist - sometimes I can't even tell whether their behaviour is intentional abusive or deep rooted cries for help. It can be difficult to distinguish whether the behavior is intentional however YOU can decide if you find the behaviour acceptable. If you think it is abuse then IT

• it is

OP...are you living in fear of consequences? Youight not recognise the 'living in fear' bit, but if you live with a sense of 'consequences', that's abuse.
But again, I feel sure the WA will have talked to you about this?

So if you live with the fear of consequence the its abuse? But what if the abuse is not intended its because it xant be helped due to personality disorder?

Also, Women's Aid and the police have been very supportive. I have more questions....so?

Look at it this way:

Say a child was abused and was damaged mentally because of it. Say they went on to become an abuser of children themselves. This is still abuse. Of course it is tragic for both involved, and there may be a reason for it psychologically, but it is still abuse.

If you make it clear you live in fear of consequences what would he say, do you ththink?

Do you think he will take responsibility for that? Or blame you?

The reason for the abuse is irrelevant in deciding whether to remove the child from the situation to protect them from this abuse.

Nothing wrong with having more questions, but WA normally so good at giving you all this advice as they are the specialists. It sounds like this is at the core of your worries, so wondered what they said.

.what's the police involvement?