Grown men pretending to be children

[Happypie]

AIBU to be very worried that safeguarding has broken down in England. I have worked in several schools in London where some of the newly arrived “children” were grown men. We have complained to social services and they admitted that the pupils were blatantly men but there was nothing they could do.
These men are being put into classes and foster homes with actual children.
We do not allow adults without DBS checks to have unfettered access to children unless they pretend to be children.
Head teachers hands are also tied. The only way to change things seems to be through parent complaints like in the story below. This is not safeguarding. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-suffolk-46070239

Seriouslywhatamess the problem is that even if your kids get a place in another school you cannot be sure the same thing isn’t happening there.
All of my friends that I have asked about this, in different secondary schools across London, all say they are teaching grown men. They despair when they see them dating 13 & 14 year old girls.

@cheeislifenow but there is absolutely no need to be a teenager to get an education. I agree that the assumption that they are creeps is a leap. I would assume they claimed asylum as a child by lying. It’s still not appropriate for them to be admitted into schools though. As OP pointed out normal adults aren’t permitted access to schools without DBS checks. There’s a reason why.

There is a x-ray they can do of the wrist bones that can tell anyone's age. Would be a simple way of finding it out. They do this in other countries in Europe and the rest of the world. Surely safeguarding the children should be the priority not a simple x-ray?

I’m Indian (from Western India and so we have Middle Eastern origin) and we often have early puberty. It’s not unusual for periods to start between 7-11 and for boys to have fully grown beards by 13-15. That ‘30 year old man’ looks almost exactly like my 15 year old cousin and he’s led a pampered UK life. I bet if my cousin lived in a war zone throughout his childhood he’d look like that too.

You absolutely can’t turn away genuine kids because a couple of idiots have abused the system. I would also question white headteachers / school kids suggesting a non-white person is of a certain age using white standards.

@bigkiteflying, DSs consultant obviously doesn’t agree with that report!

One thing that wasn't mentioned in your link is that he's been bombarding a 15 year old girl with text messages, that the head teacher dismissed as not a safeguarding issue and that he had been bragging to classmates that he's married with two kids. This is not first hand knowledge to me, but has been widely reported by parents at the school on social media.

Safeguarding cannot be sentimental

Spot on. Also, if you are asking for support from the state as a UK citizen you are often required to undergo intrusive examinations and interviews. I don't see why a medical examination for those seeking asylum should be any different. It could be combined with a general health check up to make it more palatable if needed but I don't see why somebody fleeing a war zone would object to an x-ray in order to best determine how their needs can be met.

Sorry cross-posted with bigKiteFlying. The ossification of MCE (stage 4), is conclusive evidence of adulthood. There is also a stage 5 (epiphyseal scar is no longer visible), which occurs a couple of years later. This is quite a bit more radiating than a wrist x-ray (which has a trivial radiation dosage), however. However stage 4 can occur as later as 30 years old! So you could have a 25 year old, say, but be unable to prove that he was not 16.

Cherries101 this is why age checks are needed, some cases may indeed be genuine, but is it worth the risk?

@cherries101, yes the Asian kids at school did seem to start puberty earlier than the white kids. But even with facial hair they still looked like kids. They didn’t have a full beard, adult male facial structure and chest hair.

Again Indian boys and girls are hairy. Most Indian and Middle Eastern boys (and girls) have a lot of chest / pubic hair @LFTE. Not just thin hair but wiry thick hair. I was often confused by white strangers as over 20 when I was 12.

@SeriouslyWhataMess — the reason why those checks weren’t done is because they aren’t accurate and don’t work on all races — the tests are actually statistically more likely to overestimate ages. The US uses it and many genuine kids have been rejected as a result.

@racecardriver

Presumably you can't go to college or equivalent in UK for free as you can school.
I don't agree with what they are doing at all. But can't adult education be provided for those who want to continue their education?

I do realise that's easier said than done.

You absolutely can’t turn away genuine kids because a couple of idiots have abused the system.

You absolutely can't risk exposing children and vulnerable teenagers to potentially predatory adults just because it might hurt an adult male's feelings.

In this country we pussy-foot around issues that have the potential to have people yell 'racism' though don't we? That's why we've had all these scandals involving large groups of Asian men all over the country grooming and raping young, white British girls.

"But some classmates from the school said they did not think he was as old as 30 and suggested he had been a victim of bullying."

Let's pass judgement when we actually have the facts.

Surely there is some kind of basic vetting process to try and confirm age that people are claiming to be (any evidence of records, cross examining statements to ensure consistency etc).

It isn't just 'a couple of idiots', it's a wider problem.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/child-refugees-migrants-two-thirds-home-office-dental-teeth-david-davies-a7369186.html%3famp

@juneau - I bet more white British men abuse white British girls. How would you deal with them?

@Cherries101 There is good research on age analysis, including within the Indian population, that suggests that dental records can be used with reasonable accuracy. www.dentalage.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/ashith_ba_2010_18_yr_prediction.pdf

Young, white British girls have been being groomed by white British men all over the country too, for a long time. As a teenager, I knew quite a few teenage girls with boyfriends in their late 20s.

But when it's white men, the girls are just called slags and no-one gives a shit.

@juneau but it would be racist as a PP has pointed out that her ethnic group matures earlier than white people.

Oh and this has been happening for decades and it isn't just teenage girls at risk. The cases I was told about included one that slept around with boys. The social worker and doctors simply said they had no accurate way to assess the boys ages so their hands were tied.

bigkiteflying, DSs consultant obviously doesn’t agree with that report!

It's based on a white population and is about 2/3 accurate with a wider population - that probably enough to get conformation bias.

I don't get why it's not used as part of a bigger picture though. As one point of information not helpful but as part of a range of information it could be useful.

I have a Ds aged16. Nearly 6ft tall but he looks facially like other 16 year olds

He has just started college. Seeing his fellow students going into the college I questioned their age. They looked older than Ds, I thought they looked 18-19.

I was right. Ds was the youngest by nearly 2 years He is summerborn and was put into the level 2 course.
Some had taken two years to do the Level 1 course and had turned 19

You don’t need to prove that boys are a certain age. If you are around enough of them you can tell.