To ask what to do about my mother and doctor.

[LEMtheoriginal]

This is a long and confused saga. I want to keep it concise so may drip feed.

My mum has a life-long serious medical condition. Addisons as a result of adrenalectomy to treat cushings (1958). She is 83 and to say she is difficult is an understatement.

She has been through many drs in recent years and has no trust in any of them. Its her not them!

She refuses to go to the dr when she is sick

As a result i find myself trying to manage her many ailments with otc medication that is a huge worry due to interactions with her medicines. She also on tramadol for steroid induced osteoporosis. I am in no way qualified to do this. But cant leave her with nothing iyswim.

So today i have at her request made appointment with her Gp who she dislikes. I thought good she finally realises she needs help. Several issues. Depression and not sleeping being one of many. Bad stomach. Dizziness. Sinus issues etc etc. Some need investgating. She has been referred for ultrasound but wont attend.

So it turns out she is spoiling for a fight AGAIN. Says she will demand antibiotics bit wants the ones her old dr gave her probably 10 years ago that any of the ones she has been given since have made her ill (they haven't) and that this is why she is like she is now (its not). She only kniws they were red and yellow tablets

So it will end up as her having set to with dr and leaving with mp treatment/plan as clearly the dr isnt going to give her what she wants.

My issue is - what do i do going forward. Ive discussed with my dr (who used to be hers and now my mum hates her ( and she says all the while she has "capacity " they cant intervine even though her decisions are clearly bad for her health. That i need yo protect my own (fragile) mental health

This isnt dementia. Its been going on for years although worsened with her advancing age.

How can i explain this to her dr when my mum is there. They wont discuss with me without consent obv.

At a loss

She is an extremely selfish person by doing this to you. She is manipulating and guilting you... toxic.

I think that you could try to approach your mother’s GP and ask whether a referral to a gerontologist would be useful. You would in all probability be the closest family member and would therefore be involved in the consultations.

She sounds utterly, utterly toxic and exhausting OP.

It doesn't matter why but it sounds like she's consuming you - taking more than a reasonable amount of time, energy and emotional support, at your cost.

Honestly, i'd try and step back a bit. You will not be "blamed". You don't owe your mum your time, your running around in cars, your own mental health - you can choose to help her, but it sounds like you've become so ingrained over the years/your childhood into absorbing the message that it's expected.. you no longer see the line between helping out a family member because you can and want to vs. her demanding it.

Please step back and protect yourself more effectively from her actions. She is an adult, with mental capacity, and you don't need to condone her actions or try and "save" her. You can't - you've thrown years at this already, and what good has it done? None, you've just cost yourself and your own mental health.

I suspect you need to head to the Relationships section of MN and get more specific support from the posters there: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships - there are many with similar parental problems who can help you better than in AIBU.

My friend’s MIL was like this: constantly making Dr’s appointments for various complaints then demanding a second opinion when the Dr disagreed with her. She claimed to have several heart attacks, called 999 for “falling” on at least 4 occasions (she only had a landline and when she was found on the floor she was never anywhere near the phone to have been able to make the call 🤔).

In the end she cried wolf so many times that when she complained of feeling unwell for the last time no one believed her. She was admitted to hospital a few days later and died the following day aged 96.

I do not know how it is in the UK, but generally if she has capacity it is her right to live at risk.

TBH, if she had tried to walk 20 miles I would have just let her get on with it.

She sounds incredibly manipulative.

At the end of the day, if she has capacity, I highly doubt you'll be held responsible if she dies. Check into your area's legal standards to be sure. But generally if she has capacity it is her right to live at risk. That means she has the right to decide she doesn't want treatment.

I think you would benefit from some counselling in this respect. Remember, at the end of the day, you have the choice as to how you respond to her. If she wants to be manipulative you don't have to respond to her. That's your decision. YOU have the power to decide how YOU respond.

You can always pop in here for handholding and helpful advice too:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/elderly_parents/3357318-caring-for-elderly-parents-pop-in-for-support-advice-a-bit-of-a-rant?pg=1

Contact Adult Social Services. Say that you concerned for her welfare and should be considered a vulnerable person.

Tell them you can no longer deal with her and that they must organise an assessment.

Then leave her be. You have done more than enough.

You are acting out of FOG - Fear Obligation and Guilt. She does not deserve your attention and you do not have to give it.

Put yourself first. You need to do this.

I hope you didn’t take the Paracetamol OP and instead put your phone on silent and went out with your DD.

Have you spoken to your “D”M’s Doctors yet? How is she getting to the surgery?

There is nothing you can do - She’s an adult. There’s also very little doctors can do if she has capacity and it’s her decision not to follow advice (not going for referred ultrasound etc). I am not sure speaking or writing to doctor will help much- they can’t help her either whilst she won’t accept help and they will have a good measure of her. You can only muddle through (as you are) whilst protecting your MH. If you are worried about specific things, like buying OTC meds and drug interactions, discuss with pharmacist as they can advise on interactions.

She sounds very attention seeking and I guess one of the options is to leave her to it, and reduce contact. But can see that’s tough too.

I’d hand her over to adult social services

Don’t trot this out if you haven’t a clue...it’s hugely unhelpful.

I spent weeks begging someone for help with my dad and social services couldn’t give a shit.

Nor could the numerous consultants who kept discharging a 65 year old man with 30% lung capacity who would not eat, refused to take medication and couldn’t not bear his own weight.

Home to his empty flat he went for a couple of days at a time until he was sitting in his own faeces again and I couldn’t get him to the bathroom. Then I’d call an ambulance (because who else can you call?) who would come out, tell me off, trot him back to A&E where he’d be admitted then kicked out the next day. And the cycle repeated.

Yes I’m bitter. But if only you could ‘hand over’ to SS.

My mum got a call from the Drs this morning saying her dr hasbeen called out offered an apointment on tuesday but insisted she must see a dr today so appt with yet another dr at 4.30 now. Just waiting on dp to come home.

Thankyou for the support. Will read back and reply later.

Cats were fab xx

Ive discussed with my dr (who used to be hers and now my mum hates her ( and she says all the while she has "capacity " they cant intervine even though her decisions are clearly bad for her health. That i need yo protect my own (fragile) mental health

The doctor was spot on here OP. I know you don’t like to hear it but they’re correct. You are not and cannot be responsible for another adult’s health decisions when their own decisions are different to yours. People with capacity have the right to make m choices around their health and treatment, however unwise they may seem to somebody else. And in the kindest possible way, doctors undergo training on how to assess capacity.

I feel for you, it’s really tough watching someone you love make dangerous decisions. I went through it with my own mum, thankfully while she was still alive I realised it was completely out of my control to prevent her doing what she was gonna do and was able to put boundaries up and enjoy our relationship as mum and daughter rather than untrained doctor and patient. She died as a result of her behaviour. But looking back, I still know it was out of my hands, and I cherish the memories I have of us together unfettered by arguments and trying to force her to do things.

Your mum is an adult and I really think it’d be best for your own sanity to accept that and back off and let her make her own choices. I say that as someone who did the same and watched my mum die. It was still the right decision, and it saved me from going down with her.

Hope it gets sorted for you, she needs to take responsibility for herself, you need to try and step back, why couldn't she buy her own paracetamol,

Ok, I'm speaking with sound professional knowledge of the Mental Capacity Act. Capacity is not determined on knowing who the PM is and counting backwards. Its based on her understanding of the risk and benefits of the decision she is making. The Mental Capacity Act is there to protect all of us from having the right to make decisions about ourselves. Therefore, as long as she is deemed to have capacity you her wishes will be adhered to. The best you can do is to keep sharing your concerns with her GP. Power of Attorney is of no use to you as she is deemed to have capacity. If you felt that she was at risk of serious harm as a result of her unwise decision you could make a referral to Social Care, but this may not achieve anything. You may also be entitled to a Carer's Assessment but its unclear what your level of input is or the risks of her not taking the right meds from your OP.

Thankyou Crabby - that pretty much reiterates what my Dr has told me. As someone pointed out POA is not really what im after. Its aboit getting her the appropriate help and treatments.

Because she wont engage with the medics it means all the "little" issues accumulate to one massive issue.

Todays visit was ok because she saw a locum Dr that gave her medication. Amitriptyline. So she is happy that she was given something. Very much a sticking plaster though.

She IS sleeping just not during the night. She sleeps on her sofa and not in bed then wonders why her back is bad.

However if the amitriptyline makes a difference maybe i can get her more engaged. Sadly she will expect them to be a magic bullet and wont be happy that she will still have dizziness and bad stomach pains etc fingers crossed.

Obviously i have no idea of any investigations you mum has had but for me, dizziness and stomach pains are symptoms of low cortisol?

Frances that is interesting. I don't think her cortisol levels are monitored enough. We have addisonsdogs at the vets and they are tested every 6 months at the least!

As far as im aware though she has been tested relatively recently. Thismight be worth raising with her Dr though.

The trouble is with my mum is that she doesn't understand that thingschange over time. "I wasn't like this before" iyswim.

Do you double up on your meds when you experience dizziness? My mum is supposedto double up if sheis unwell but she (and me) understands it as an infection or if she vomits. I might suggest she does that but again that is in the realms of being an unqualified medic. I do have a sort of medical background but im not a dr.

LEM I think I remember you posting about your mum before. Does she have a tendency to wake you up when you're working nights, despite repeated pleading not to? My apologies if I've misremembered - it sounds like a really hard situation in any case

No, i don't double if i get these symptoms. I'll take an extra 5mg at the time I'm feeling "ill" and that usually sorts me out.

Does she have enough HC to do this.

Also what dose is she on and what times does she take her tablets

Treating dogs with Addison's is about maintaining the potassium/sodium ratio hence the more frequent testing.

Does your mum see an endocrinologist at the hospital or is she solely under the care of her doctor (or not as the case may be)

My Mum was similar and quite paranoid. It caused all manner of problems over several years. Her GP was quite scared of her and her firm insistence that all was ok and that she needed no help or intervention. He would call in sick to avoid her (in my opinion). Anyway I eventually managed to get her assessed by an old age psychiatrist and he diagnosed dementia. He tested her with the Montreal Cognitive Assessment. Could you get your Mum assessed by a similar type of health professional as a check to make sure nothing else is going on?

You are taking far too much responsibility.

She's a grown woman. She is allowed to make stupid decisions. You are not required to fix her self-inflicted issues. You can leave her be. You really can.

I’m glad you enjoyed the cats

What you need is a version of a patient passport.

These are generally used for people with learning disabilities but you can certainly adapt it for your mother. Complete it with her so she agrees the information, ask her to sign it agreeing for you to be able to talk to Dr's & send it to her G.P & take another during any hospital admissions.

You sound like you are your mothers next of kin & whilst consent for a patient with capacity is a necessity, there are occasions such as hospital admissions, where a patients condition will be discussed with you without consent.

Your mother sounds manipulative & as she is perfectly able to call an ambulance & demand A,B or C, I'd start taking more of a back seat. She is perfectly able to look after herself in her own home & you should take confidence from that. Arrange her medication a week ahead, put emergency medication there too & write a list. If she chooses to disregard it, so be it but you need to take a step back.

Your mother is manipulating you and I am quite sure she is damaging your own mental health. I’m in the camp saying step back and let her get on with it.

Do you have a counsellor or mental health team you can talk to about all this? Considered online CBT?