To ask what to do about my mother and doctor.

[LEMtheoriginal]

This is a long and confused saga. I want to keep it concise so may drip feed.

My mum has a life-long serious medical condition. Addisons as a result of adrenalectomy to treat cushings (1958). She is 83 and to say she is difficult is an understatement.

She has been through many drs in recent years and has no trust in any of them. Its her not them!

She refuses to go to the dr when she is sick

As a result i find myself trying to manage her many ailments with otc medication that is a huge worry due to interactions with her medicines. She also on tramadol for steroid induced osteoporosis. I am in no way qualified to do this. But cant leave her with nothing iyswim.

So today i have at her request made appointment with her Gp who she dislikes. I thought good she finally realises she needs help. Several issues. Depression and not sleeping being one of many. Bad stomach. Dizziness. Sinus issues etc etc. Some need investgating. She has been referred for ultrasound but wont attend.

So it turns out she is spoiling for a fight AGAIN. Says she will demand antibiotics bit wants the ones her old dr gave her probably 10 years ago that any of the ones she has been given since have made her ill (they haven't) and that this is why she is like she is now (its not). She only kniws they were red and yellow tablets

So it will end up as her having set to with dr and leaving with mp treatment/plan as clearly the dr isnt going to give her what she wants.

My issue is - what do i do going forward. Ive discussed with my dr (who used to be hers and now my mum hates her ( and she says all the while she has "capacity " they cant intervine even though her decisions are clearly bad for her health. That i need yo protect my own (fragile) mental health

This isnt dementia. Its been going on for years although worsened with her advancing age.

How can i explain this to her dr when my mum is there. They wont discuss with me without consent obv.

At a loss

[Abitlost2015]

You probably already know but I think you need to hear it and repeat it to yourself: you cannot fix the situation. You cannot change your mother’s behaviour. This is not your responsability. However this ends it is not your fault. Read out loud and repeat to yourself. And if you don’t believe any of those sentences talk to somebody who can help you because they are all true.

[diddl]

"But cant leave her with nothing iyswim."

Yes you can.

"So this resulted in us having to follow in the car begging her to get in."

You're enabling her.

I think that you need to pull right back & only then might she start to get any help that she needs.

[LEMtheoriginal]

So she knows i made her a 5pm appointment. It was her that asked for as late as poss. Now she is wailing down the phone she needs paracetamol - that she needs a dr before 5.

She knows im taking dd out and she knows my dp is at work. I dont drive - drs is three miles away as the one literally at the end of her road she has seen every dr and declared them all bastards so she took it upon hersrlf to change AGAIN.

She asked if i was going out..diesnt want to ruin my day....oh oh wail wail i feel so bad moaning noises hangs up phone.

I intend going with paracetemol en route to bus with dd for our visit to cat cafe thAt i keep promising - joy. Cafe full of cats with fur in my cofe smelling likd old people. I like cats but i work with them - its my day off

[Allalittlebitshit2019]

Shes totally manipulating you and playing you. I suspect you realise this but are stuck in a kind of co dependency relationship.
Is her behaviour effecting your daughter at all?

[diddl]

"- drs is three miles away as the one literally at the end of her road she has seen every dr and declared them all bastards so she took it upon hersrlf to change AGAIN."

Will she get herself to the Drs?

If not & she now relies on someone else when she could previously get herself there, I would think that that would go towards not aking good decisions for her own care.

[MatildaTheCat]

Take her to the doctor and refuse to get involved with her games. The GP will very quickly see through her and will be experienced in dealing with this sort of thing.

In terms of her accusations and unpleasantness just keep your distance and remain completely neutral. Someone has stolen her sewing machine? ‘ oh dear’.

My FIL has been very similar and it’s bloody hard. I was absolutely in awe of his GP when I took him though. She was respectful and clear and didn’t give in to silly demands. He also refused to take certain advice and has ended up in a nursing home. That would probably be your best case scenario if there are decent options.

Hold on and keep the mantra, ‘I am not responsible for this,’ firmly in mind.

[Sicario]

Hello OP. Sorry to hear this. Nightmare. A very good friend of mine had the same situation and got adult social services involved. The mother was highly manipulative and would phone the daughter constantly who was commuting/working full time. Got to the point when the friend just couldn't cope with it any more.

Adult social services did step in, although it took quite a lot of insistence and pushing from the daughter. The more you give in to your mother, the more she will expect and demand from you. Get the authorities involved, write to her GP (the letter will go on her file), set out your boundaries and stick to them. There is no reasoning with an unreasonable person. This is not your fault and you cannot change the person she is.

[MatildaTheCat]

Cross posted. dont take her paracetamol. If she has tramadol she won’t gain much if any benefit from this.

Continue your day and enjoy the cats!

[purpleline]

OP your mother may have MH issues and your GP may be wrong about her lack of capacity. Call adult social services and explain the situation. They can arrange for wider assessments.
Do not pander to her! You need to detach yourself. This sounds awful!

[MatildaTheCat]

Finally, I would recommend making an appointment to speak to her GP and outline all of the above, including the manipulative behaviour in buying OTC meds.

The doctor can’t share information with you but can most certainly listen to you and make a note of your concerns. They would find it very helpful if your mother is economical with the truth.

[FrancesFryer]

Having Addison's myself i can completely understand the distrust in doctors. So few have even come across it that I find myself telling them what I want.

If she's used to having to do this i can understand her telling them what medication she wants. Although this isn't appropriate in the case of antibiotics, but i can understand why.

I have stomach problems caused by steroid irritation and find a gluten free diet helps.

The manipulation of you however, i would have no idea how to manage.

Sorry

[Sallycinammonbangsthedruminthe]

OP would it benefit telephoning the practice manager at the doctors..? They can I would imagine although not being able to discuss personal details,listen to what you have to say and inform the GP before hand.It might be worth a try..also I would politely suggest to your mum that as she is appearing to struggle more and more you are going to look into care homes ..this does not have to be the case but it might just might with fingers and toes crossed make her realise her treatment of you is just not on.A slight and gentle guilt trip might just alter her attitude ...One of my friends had similar and one day she just couldnt do it anymore...she rang either 111 or social services and said she had had enough and was not looking after her mum anymore, they were amazing and after her repeatedly begging for help with her mum and non materializing they took her seriously and extra help was found.This took a whole weight of her shoulders and actually enabled her to enjoy her relationship with her mum...You by the sounds of it are doing an amazing job but its not weak or shameful to say you cannot do this alone...ask for some help,demand some help for your own sanity..Good Luck...

[Prettyvase]

You can't change her but you can change how you respond to her.

Ring social services and let them know.

Seriously do not do anything that upsets you or your mh. Put yourself first. Be strong.

Do not engage. Do not reason. Do not beg. Do not try and make her do anything.

If she has always been selfish and spiteful you can't expect her to change but you can detach and change how you respond to her.

[LEMtheoriginal]

Yes fryer - i get that and have found myself instructing hospital drs on how to manage crises. In the guise of "tgey usually do x"

[Orchiddingme]

You cannot get POA unless the person is incapacitated anyway and it sounds like she does have capacity, even people with early Alzheimer's or dementia may have some capacity and you can't just override that just because you think their decisions are stupid!

The best thing to do in this situation is let her get on with it. Don't try to get the dr to do anything- leave her at the surgery and let her fight it out with him or her. They will be used to 'difficult' older patients with cognitive/other issues, and will not get emotionally involved like you are. I also think as another poster said, that she doesn't really have any huge medical issues anyway unless she actively wants treatment- it is her choice, not yours, so if she doesn't want to accept their advice and only wants the red and yellow pills of yesteryear which no longer exist, then so be it. This may prompt the dr to do a screen for dementia etc anyway.

I would step back, and keep that distance for your own sanity.

[Feefeetrixabelle]

I would step back for your own mental health. It really seems like she is manipulating you. That may be on purpose it may be cause by her own issues. But you come first from now on.

Don’t take her paracetamol she has tramadol and if she needs more painkillers she can ask the gp.

If she kicks off in the gps say I’m not providing you with anymore otc medication. In future she will have to sort it out and manage contraindications. Your not a qualified medical practitioner.

If she goes to hospital and wants to walk 20 miles home do not follow her in the car begging her to get in. Ask her once if she refuses use 101 and report her for her own well being. She’s a grown woman you can’t force her in the car. And mental health services won’t be interested until professionals bring her to their attention.

It’s feel harsh and cruel but there is a good chance that it will be the making of her. She will sink or swim. If she swims great you no longer have to enable her she can manage alone. If she sinks it will be under the care of professionals who are best placed to help her.

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

I will have to break into my mothers house and will find her dead ... I will get the blame because i didn't get her medical treatment

Who is it you feel you'll be blamed by? Because they may well be the person to hand her care over to

Right now you're enabling her playing you, and by heck she's making a good job of it. The doctor has told you that you need to think of your own mental health and they're absolutely right, but the choice about doing this is entirely yours

Somehow - with counselling support if it would help - I suggest you need to back right off

[Feefeetrixabelle]

I agree with @puzzledandpissedoff and as a side bar she needs her medication managed by a professional as she has a serious medical condition. She has reactions to certain medications. You are not trained to manage contraindications. While I don’t think anything would happen to you should you make a mistake with the medication (nor should it) from what you’ve said you wouldn’t live with the guilt.

[overagain]

I will have to break into my mothers house and will find her dead ... I will get the blame because i didn't get her medical treatment

Blamed by whom?

From what you write it sounds like your mum has capacity regarding her health and that she is making a bad decision regarding her health (I assess capacity for a living). The fact this is long term and ongoing increases the likelihood of it being unwise decision making. She clearly has MH issues, but that doesn't stop her having capacity necessarily, just gives cause to question it.

Capacity is decision and time specific so you don't get a blanket "doesn't have capacity". So I your case, you mum had capacity to ask you to make a GP appointment at 5pm. She then has capacity to change her mind that she wants it earlier. Her not understanding or her unwillingness to accept that GP appointments can't be changed to suit her whim is not necessarily a lack of capacity, more stubborn/ selfish/ self centred entitled behaviour which may be a result of her MH conditions.

TBH she sound narcissistic and if I were you I'd make withdrawal from support. If you are worried, make a referral to adult social care and let them deal with it.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

You cannot get POA unless the person is incapacitated anyway - that's not quite right. You can set up a PoA only while the person has capacity, but the Health and Welfare PoA (unlike the Financial one) can be used only when the person has lost capacity.

You don't need a PoA for the GP to discuss her with you - but you do need her written consent (my aged parent has given consent, it's on the GP's computer system, and the GPs are happy to discuss with me).

If you don't have her consent, you are still free to write to the GP with your concerns.

The official Guidance for PoAs is quite clear that "capacity" includes the "capacity to make bad decisions". So as long as she has capacity to understand the implications of her decisions, she is quite entitled to behave as she is doing.

I agree with what everyone else is saying - step back a bit. She has capacity - you are not responsible for her or the consequences of her actions.

I wouldn't be getting the paracetamol for her either. I might give her the phone number of a taxi firm.

[Fluffycloudland77]

No one will blame you if your mum is found dead after refusing to engage with medics. I imagine her go is already dreading 5pm too.

I’d hand her over to adult social services.

[Oblomov18]

Sounds a nightmare.

"I will get the blame because i didn't get her medical treatment. " eh? Blamed by whom?

Could you, or anyone else? your sister or Dh go to a GP appointment With her?

[Orchiddingme]

MereDintofPandiculation You are completely right, I didn't explain it very well. I was just trying to explain to some posters that because someone is annoying, irrational or walks to the surgery with assistance (!) doesn't mean you can then come and override their decisions.

OP at 83, your mum has lived a long time, probably because of your good care/getting her the meds. No-one will blame you if she's found dead. To be totally blunt, at 83, she will be found dead at some time point in the nearish future. This is not avoidable, nor anyone's fault, and given the rest of the family bodyswerve her, no-one will be blaming you nor need you feel that would be your fault.

There's also the issue of whether treatment is appropriate- it might be better for her to have help for her depression/mild stomach issues, but they are not life-threatening and it will be for her to decide if she wants either in the case of severe or less severe problems.

In other words- you've done what you can for now, let her get on with her ranting and leave the professionals to sort her out.

[citiesofbismuth]

Write a letter to her doctor explaining everything. Tell your mother that her health is her responsibility and there's nothing more you can do. She's an adult, leave her to it as she's just creating stress all round.

[JiltedJohnsJulie]

Ok so maybe POA is a bad idea.