Knife crime in London

[wondering1101]

Another fatal stabbing last night - it happened at tea time they said on the news, and a 15 year old died .

I don’t know what the statistics are but well over 100 people have died since the beginning of the year.

I have three secondary school aged dc - AIBU to sometimes want to move away . Not that it’s an option.

I know that statistically the people who die are a tiny percentage of the population (not that that makes it better), but it’s the fact that knives are so commonplace now and the menace is somehow “there”. The fact that you wouldn’t get into an argument with someone on the street (not that that’s what I make a habit of doing!) because you never know what weapons they may have. And while the victims are often involved in gangs (not that that makes it better either), they by no means always are. Some people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time .

What is going to make the situation better?

Because both victims and perpetrators tend to be young black boys/men, the issue doesn’t get the attention or funds needed to improve things, imo.

Have you spoken to your DC about it, OP? How do they feel, do they see knife crime as an issue at their school etc?

I'm not sure it's that different anywhere else?

Cuts to police are probably a factor but also cuts to youth services/support have also exacerbated it

Plus a whole lot of toxic masculinity where teenage boys need to posture online and take a small slight as a mortal insult. Not sure how you change that.

Because when you talk about how knife crime has risen more since Khan's much vaunted plan (as opposed to any other point during the austere years and before the impending police cuts) you get blasted for just wanting to have a pop at him. Rather than actual debate about why the chosen interventions were chosen (were they good choices, made soundly, with supporting evidence), how they are being evaluated, why the expected results aren't happening, whether/when/how there should be changes

(change all the time doesn't work, but neither does sticking with something that isn't working: perhaps that's why it doesn't get debated - it's not something that lends itself to sound bites and quick fixes, which is why any mention seems to end up being tak as a personal attack on the mayor. I think that's unfortunate)

I don’t know the answer but it is heart-breaking. Keep talking to your dcs, help them rehearse getting away/ de-escalating strategies and make sure they know there is nothing cowardly in running away from trouble. London schools are trying to support young people to avoid being the victims in knife crime - why not ask what your dc’s school is doing?

There's a useful concept from a Brazilian educational philosopher called Paolo Freire- 'horizontal violence'. The idea is that people in oppressed communities (few jobs, low pay, expensive housing, disadvantages due to racism and classism, etc) have very little room to gain any kind of empowered situation so they strike out against each other - jostling for position. The blame lies on those who use the system to make themselves rich. The solution is more/better paid jobs, cheaper housing, respect for race/class, etc.

Another relevant area of research is on schools where there is a very strong sports programme shows a real reduction in bullying. Kids find their hierarchy on the field.

And a third thing that comes to mind concerns the benefits of involvement in the arts/creativity. Creative space gives kids a voice. And when youth voice is taken seriously, they develop the skills to address the oppressive systems they're living within. Freire calls it dialogic pedagogy but it basically just means listenibg to kids and working collaboratively to solve problems.

All this requires investment and ideological shifts!

Sorry for the essay but I think these ideas are useful...

I don’t know what the statistics are but well over 100 people have died since the beginning of the year.

I have three secondary school aged dc - AIBU to sometimes want to move away sad. Not that it’s an option.

I reckon there are about 630,000 teenage children in London. If 10 a month are killed, it works out that 99.9% will survive this phase.

I doubt the risk is evenly spread though, I would guess the vast majority have much less risk, and a small minority much higher risk.

We decided to move out Of London because of stuff like this. We both grew up there and miss it loads but it's definitely not the same anymore. I, as a young girl, would always be out playing with friends, but I couldn't bare to let my daughter out in that area anymore. Flats developments on every corner, reduced police force out on the roads, mobile phones meaning kids are growing up faster than ever. Just no! Looking forward to raising our kids in the suburbs to be completely honest.

It’s tragic. There are complex issues though and certain areas, certain groups who are at far greater risk. The main issue is disaffected young men forming gangs and becoming embroiled in ever increasing levels of violence. Those carrying knives are more likely to be stabbed. It’s not rocket science.
To reduce this there has to be increasing parental involvement and control from a young age. There also needs to be better support for parents to do this through Sure start etc.
There has to be greater education about risk reduction in the community.
There has to be better opportunities for young people from poor or isolated communities such as youth clubs, affordable sports clubs, safe places and job support/mentoring programmes.

It's not any better anywhere else. I live in the East Midlands and there have been numerous stabbing s in my home town which is becoming increasingly dangerous.

The idea is that people in oppressed communities (few jobs, low pay, expensive housing, disadvantages due to racism and classism, etc) have very little room to gain any kind of empowered situation so they strike out against each other - jostling for position. The blame lies on those who use the system to make themselves rich. The solution is more/better paid jobs, cheaper housing, respect for race/class, etc

This is what I think too.

It’s defini better in other places - most of the country. There are urban hot spots facing similar issues but the U.K. is very safe for most people.

It needs a multi-prong approach. We need stop and search to be used properly and come down like a hot ton of bricks on knife and drug offenses. We need investment in the police but also more police efficiency. We don't need police getting involved with Alan Sugar's jokes on twitter, etc.

However we need to address the underlying conditions. Poverty is a problem, but its poverty of aspiration that needs addressing. Whether its perceived or real, i'm not sure, but kids need the encouragement and opportunity to thrive outside of street gangs and become a valuable and valued member of society.

It is very devastating, it tends to be in the poorer areas of London where gangs are more common. Teens often have no choice because but to join as you often need to be affiliated with a gang for your own protection.

I think we need more positive but relatable role models talking to kids in schools (get them young) about knife crime with a focus on education, and feeling empowered and secure in yourself without needing to prove yourself in gangs or with violence. A middle aged white MP in parliament doesn’t understand what it’s like to live in these areas or what it means to be a young person today in a low income area. I know there are campaign groups who do great work, but it needs more funding and focus from the government which I can’t see happening.

I've lived in the top two most dangerous (by no. Of homicides) boroughs for almost a decade, and have lived in some pretty impoverished areas, I feel as safe as I have anywhere else, as a white woman. I feel that DP as a young mixed race man is more at risk, but he knows what areas to avoid and how to handle himself. As long as you are not in a gang you are pretty safe, the majority of stabbings are gang on gang. There are no opportunities for these young men, and no one has any interest in helping them, that is why these gangs are so successful, they provide a purpose, a feeling of belonging and an income from the proceeds of crime. An us against the world mentality is incredibly powerful. Hopefully the end of austerity will bring in some much needed support for inner city youth, which I believe would help enormously. None of the young, middle class, white people I know around here feel unsafe, they have no need to as although they live alongside pockets of poverty they never have to interact with it.

After everything that has happened this year I think that the knife laws need to be changed nationwide to 21 or even 25? Most will probably get their knives at home but might prevent some

Nearly every single stabbing victim so far has been either a black or an South / south east asian male. If this were happening to white boys something would be done.

minniebow Fri 02-Nov-18 10:36:01
After everything that has happened this year I think that the knife laws need to be changed nationwide to 21 or even 25? Most will probably get their knives at home but might prevent some

I'm pretty sure they don't obtain their weapons by legit methods anyway so that would make little difference unfortunately.

Another fatal stabbing of a teenager this afternoon, outside Clapham South tube station

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46075651

YANBU to feel like moving away.

It’s statistically unlikely to affect me directly, but it’s part of a bigger picture and I’m reaching the point where I’ve had enough of it all.

It’s a problem that needs to be addressed but I think you’re overreacting.

Homicides are on the rise in London, after they dipped to historic lows in the early 2010s, but they are still lower than they were for the whole of the 1990s and 2000s.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/London_Homicide_1990-2017.png

I live in London but i would think twice about staying if i had secondary school children.
Its not even just kids in gangs its anyone and i think its unfair to mention race because there are a lot who have been of other races besides black

This link was joe f yesterday

news.sky.com/story/londons-year-of-horror-so-far-the-victims-in-the-first-weeks-of-2018-11315362

And no, we should not accept this acceptable' and think the rates of 2010s were low - compared to most of the 20th century they were extremely high.

It is very concerning the rise in knife crime

We only hear in the media about the deaths rarely about those who have survived

There are a number of issues, lack of policing, lack of investment, boredom and the really big issue is drugs

Many of the young boys are in drug gangs it’s such a lure to them earning large amounts of money to do what appears very little, it’s a way for them to gain respect and others what to be with them and be like them those higher up know where to recruit and how to manipulate

Those of us (and I include myself in the past) that buy any illegal drug are part of the problem but the professional recreational drug users which are certainly fueling this issue hugely are not impacted by the gang culture

We have to be more honest about why and also look are our perceptions in society of you men especially young black men it’s shocking that in 2018 many still feel they have to prove themselves others because of skin colour and class background (which can impact us all)

BBC reporting the death of a 16yo in Tulse Hill following a stabbing last night.

And agree, non fatal stabbing and shootings rarely make the news.

At some time in the future governments will have to legalise currently illegal drugs and set a business to sell them, with the appropriate tax to cover education and treatment. All the illegality is doing is make some pretty nasty people a great deal of money.

I had a relation who was involved in this, now dead at any early age so I have avoided all drugs

We also need to know why so many people take drugs, and most are not ‘poor’ or whatever, many are well paid professionals - what is the allure?