Knife crime in London

[wondering1101]

Another fatal stabbing last night - it happened at tea time they said on the news, and a 15 year old died .

I don’t know what the statistics are but well over 100 people have died since the beginning of the year.

I have three secondary school aged dc - AIBU to sometimes want to move away . Not that it’s an option.

I know that statistically the people who die are a tiny percentage of the population (not that that makes it better), but it’s the fact that knives are so commonplace now and the menace is somehow “there”. The fact that you wouldn’t get into an argument with someone on the street (not that that’s what I make a habit of doing!) because you never know what weapons they may have. And while the victims are often involved in gangs (not that that makes it better either), they by no means always are. Some people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time .

What is going to make the situation better?

I think as a decent society we are sitting up and taking notice . Stats aside

I don’t want this to happen to the little lads in my DC class . Or to my DC for that matter , but their race gives them a statistically lower risk

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45572691

I spent years in london and felt it could be bad for knife crime then but its got so much worse recently almost one a day. Its unacceptable and I do think our society, our politics and economic model are at fault and I also blame the Tory Government and their cuts its all very well to make efficany savings and reign in over spending but they always go way too far for ideological reasons and the result is always the same and none of us want to live the society where those policies lead.

The families of the boys I knew who were stabbed were close, supportive and with strong dads present. It didn’t save them

The person who stabbed them is the one who probably didn't have those things.

Exactly

Make sure you know where your child is at all times and don’t let them carry knives or hang around in gangs

Most parents do this.
Try being a single black mother of a 13 or 15 year old boy who won't be controlled.
The 'respect' of the gang is more important to these youths.

It doesn't feel like anyone is actually trying to get to the root of the problem. The media is all about how police are going to get the numbers down. But by the time police are involved it's too late.
Too many youths are disaffected, angry and frustrated but no one cares enough until it affects them under their noses outside a tube station.

I have seen projects aimed at these kids but it's always things like football and music. Not everyone is going to be able to be a premier league footballer or top rapper! So I feel the focus is all wrong. Yeah I get that it's the things they are interested in but surely it would be better to get them into trades, or IT if they're good at it, things like that. Something realistic and achievable.

This!

I was shouting at the TV last night; the presenter was showing a black teenager in a 'community music space'. He thinks this is his way out of it all, utterly deluded! And we perpetuate the myth and subsequent disallusion when we put funds into something like this rather than education / counselling / practical support.

I agree

Education , skills , hope , self esteem

Give them a viable sense that they can have a meaningful career and life
Get to their low self esteem

Not bloody rap and football !

And I do think that whilst there is bluster and bravado about being a rude boy , low self esteem (even if they don’t realise it) is at
Play

Having a career , a house a car for some boys feel likes it’s for other people not them

nothing will be done as its generally perceived as drug dealers killing drug dealers.

I live in a very high stabbing area.

I don't think there is a solution. The police can't watch over everyone constantly so I don't think increasing numbers would really change anything. Same with pointless policies like making it harder to buy knives, they are more about being seen to be doing something.

Ultimately, you need kids not to want to stab each other. That requires social change which is difficult to achieve through government policy.

I think a big factor is toxic masculinity driven by fatherlessness. These kids don't have role models for how men should behave and have developed their own culture of violence instead.

Having a career , a house a car for some boys feel likes it’s for other people not them

True, but sometimes I think we expect everyone to aim for those things and it may not be what everyone wants so we think they aren't 'normal'

I saw something recently where some black teenage boys from poor areas were sent to an extremely prestigious boys private school (may have been Eton actually). No idea who paid for it but the difference it made to their lives was incredible. They spoke afterwards about the friends they had left behind who were mainly in gangs. Very sad but obviously that can't be implemented around the country!

Sorry it was Rugby www.eyla.org.uk/images/post/May-27-Rugby.pdf

Whilst there will always be exceptions to the rule I agree that most of these lads needs exposure to something better

If your peer group all believe (or find it easy to believe) it’s hopeless
And the lads that are looked up to embrace criminality well its a no brainer

I am interested in what these lads think and what other black men and women think too

Well stormZy is funding scholarships to Cambridge
So not rap music, youth centres or football

I've just seen a little item on BBC Breakfast saying there is an article in the BMJ showing that the incidence of teen stabbings increases on weekdays between 4 and 6pm, and suggesting that the end of the school day should be staggered. Which seems to be measure to alter when there is opportunity to fight, rather than looking to the actual causes.

I think it was nhs trauma doctors who have to deal with stab victims who were suggesting that so i suppose it's outside their remit to look at causes.

I watched an interview recently with someone high up in the police in Scotland. Apparently a few years ago Glasgow was the knife crime capital of Europe and had many of the same issues in London today. She was saying they dramatically reduced it by studying causes of knife crime and focusing on prevention rather than punishment

Apparently there are social factors for example poverty family issues etc where they can predict fairly accurately in primary schools which kids were likely to end up excluded and they also found a massive link with excluded kids from these backgrounds and crime. They concentrated on these kids and worked with schools and other agencies to have a no exclusion rule and do everything to keep them in school.

I guess the issue with that is with the reduced funding in schools now they will struggle to stop this affecting other pupils. But high crime rates affect everyone.

This happened back in the early noughties, if anyone else remembers. There was a famous newspaper cover with the 57 faces of young lads that had been murdered on London streets so far that year.

And back then, there were no cuts. The cause was seen to be a policy change brought in by Labour: ie. the reduction of stop and search.

As soon as the murder rate gained enough attention, s&s came back and the murders dropped off. Carrying a knife also became subject to harsh penalties.

I just wish government would grow some bloody backbone.

The stabbings rate was unacceptably high in the 00s too.

Making comparisons between two horribly high rates doesn't really further a debate on what is needed to both contain the issue (like fiddling with times that teens are likely to be hanging round) and to actually solve it

The weapon of choice should not be a knife, it should be education. Having an education should lead to having aspiration. Leading too better life choices.
There is no respect or regard for human life anymore. Respect for yourself and others should be taught from birth. Having manners should be taught from birth. Respect for your elders should be taught from birth. Instead there seems to be disrespectful attitudes that breed hate towards others. Family needs to be the one and only gang that these kids belong too. And if there isn’t that option then they need too make positive connections.
The law needs to tightened up in regards to sentencing knife crime. You get caught carrying a knife then you should receive a lengthy custodial sentence as a deterrent. Using a knife that kills should carry a sentence of life meaning life.

If you think of knife crime it's a very personal crime. Thinking logically to stab someone you have to get up close to them to be able to reach. These are very much to cause intentional damage.

Kids are not stupid they know it is wrong to go around killing people. Youth clubs etc focus on getting kids into music and performing arts. Not that there's anything wrong with that but if you're already living in an area that is quite frankly ripe for gentrification (which these areas need). Poverty all around, fast food shops and betting shops galore, getting these kids in the mindset that they are to be the next stormzy is just not realistic. Nor is its fair, its continuing to teach them that fast money is the way. Which is why they join these gangs it's access to fast money.

There's also the parents, mums and dad's need to have a good look at themselves. If you're kid who doesn't work starts showing up with expensive items in the home, how can you not question where it's coming from. You're condoning the behaviour by taking money from the child or turning a blind eye. Who is the parent and who is the child?

The prison service is a business that needs to make money and the prisons need to be full to make profit . They fill the system with the most disadvantaged, which is young black men. Statisics and government reports show these young men are discriminated against by the justice system. So many factors contribute to this. Its all a set up. Sorry to sound like a conspiracy theorist but the truth is often stranger than fiction.