To think flying off on holidays is immoral?

[RedTriangle]

Anyone planning to fly off on holidays?

“Every round-trip ticket on flights from New York to London, keep in mind, costs the Arctic three more square meters of ice”
nymag.com/intelligencer/2017/07/climate-change-earth-too-hot-for-humans.html

I live near an airport and there is a steady stream of planes landing and taking off. It feels ominous now in light of the recent WWF report talking about life on earth being wiped out.

There are posts on mumsnet on the section about long haul travel where people are talking about flying off with their families to Thailand or Mexico etc not thinking or not caring about the impact! Future generations won’t be jetting off and living lives like this as we will have destroyed the planet and they will be scrambling to survive.

My parents have booked a weekend in Spain! They regularly do this and they will be long gone while future people pay a terrible price.

I live on a REALLY big island. Without a plane we can’t really go anywhere. Sure, once upon a time people took boats to travel but my recollection is 9 months on a boat to get to England for example. They were sailing boats, obviously different now with modern ships but I imagine it’s a few weeks? Not even sure how much better such ships would be than a plane though?

Condemning people to a life of isolation seems odd. Obviously people just accepted this a few hundred years ago but it’s a hard pill to swallow now due to progress/technology.

I took my dog on a walk this week on bin day. I was frankly horrified at the overflowing bins and contaminated recycling bins I saw. Without exaggerating at least one in 5 houses had either an overflowing landfill bin, a contaminated recycling bin (top.of bin open with visibly bagged rubbish in it), or both. We need to address our habits at their core - if every person took responsibility for reducing landfill that would help the planet far more than giving up an annual holiday.

Our family of five now produces one bag of landfill per week. We have implemented work farms throughout the garden and independently recycle soft plastics. I don't eat meat,poultry, seafood or dairy. I use public transport to work.

Visiting my aging parents once a year is not immoral. What is troubling is the true reality of a low low percentage of people who are prepared to make real every day changes in their lives.

I think your outrage is misguided OP. There are battles better won.

worm farms

Meh. Might as well all kill ourselves, seeing as even being alive impacts on the environment.

YABU. However carry on doing your bit. I'm sure most of us try to help

Always the people with lots of children (who have time to sit Google theories and breast beat) who get dramatic about these things.
Meanwhile in the real world....

You're right. We are destroying the planet and no one really gives a shit about it, in contrary, it's 'uncool' to mention it.

However, this is what puts it into perspective for me when I feel like I'm killing the earth single handedly: 100 companies are responsible for 71% of global emissions. That's 100 companies vs 7 billion people...

If you're making an effort in your day to day life and raise your kids with values which put morals over money I think you're doing great.

Yeah I'll just get my walking boots on and walk over to bali from the UK.. 😒

What is troubling is the true reality of a low low percentage of people who are prepared to make real every day changes in their lives.

But any significant change would require a total overhaul of how we live now.

No pets, no cars, no meat, no travel, commitment to having no kids, no mains electricity, virtually no consumption.

Who is willing to go that far?

And even then, one person is just a teeny tiny drop in the ocean.

We all need to stop reproducing as much. But we won’t.

Surveys show that what you do does make an impact. Not only because many small streams create a mighty river, but also because it influence your friends to copy some of it.

If people stop flying because of the impact, their friends will also fly less than they used to. We use washing nuts and are very pleased with them (hint: use only washing nuts. Don't add essential oils to get the perfume. Oil will make your clothes dirty) and have told some friends about it, because they are also environmentally aware. Two other families now also use washing nuts. They had never heard of them before, so we tripled the environmental effect of us using washing nuts. We try to get in at least one new less environmentally damaging habit every year, so I read a lot about how to reduce our foot print, but most ideas are things we have always done. There are lots of ideas on pinterest.

Laurie, I do have children. So I choose not to give up - I can't just say fuck it kids - we are screwed. I have changed my habits - a drop in the ocean maybe, but it's my drop. More importantly, I hope my children will adopt these behaviour changes - as their normal.

But you know, it's a bit arrogant to clutch your bum about this on behalf of the world.
I don't really care about this. Not to be subversive, not to be controversial. I just don't really care. Like flying and driving and don't really bother about the future.
And I object to people wailing on my behalf. Let's lie awake about mental health services, consistent abuse of children on care, lack of basic healthcare in the UK, loneliness among older people and true, desolate alone people. Join a group, fundraise, volunteer.

Our bin rarely overflows but I would love to put less in in it. What am I supposed to do with non recyclables like cat food pouches, the contents of the litter tray (I use biodegradable bags), contact lens blister packs?

Regarding the contact lenses, I found out it's possible to recycle the lenses and packaging but no local optician does it. I looked into doing it myself but it's £80 for the container and I can't afford it. I wish the council would do more to help.

If people stop flying because of the impact, their friends will also fly less than they used to

LMAO. Yeah, ok then :D

Laurie, I do have children. So I choose not to give up - I can't just say fuck it kids - we are screwed. I have changed my habits - a drop in the ocean maybe, but it's my drop.

Sure, but as you are someone with 3 kids and a dog who takes flights (and presumably has mains electricity and so on) you're not a particularly good model of environmental consciousness. That's not a criticism btw, very, very few of us are.

So when you talk about making 'real changes' just be aware that they aren't as significant as you'd like them to be. By all means keep doing them if it makes you feel better though.

Always the people with lots of children (who have time to sit Google theories and breast beat) who get dramatic about these things

The irony!

I don't have children so makes nay odds to me what happens after I'm gone.

The other issue is if we consume less what’s everyone going to go for a living? Our entire global economy is built on overconsumption. If everyone suddenly cuts their consumption by 70% then the economy would collapse and it’s not like we can all go back to farming. Also agree with Laurie that people wouldn’t be prepared to do what it would really take- do people know what a vegan locally sourced diet looks like in England in winter? I wish I could be more optimistic but I suspect humanity will just be a blip on the face of the planet. Maybe in 65 million years some other species will get obsessed with us like we are about dinosaurs.

@Pinksparkly

I make my own cat food and use reusable storage. If I do need to give her store bought, I recycle the tin or put the pouch in the soft plastic recycling (along with any plastic bags, food packets etc).

I use a recycled paper cat litter it is brilliant. Used litter tops out our worm farms. A great insulation layer. Do pop is scooped into compatible bags and goes onto the large compost heap.

I think you are making a huge assumption by saying people who fly do don't care.

@laurie, I would say that reducing our landfill from a full wheelie bin per week to one bag of rubbish per week is significant.

We have cut our electricity consumption by a third in the past year by making changes. Likewise water consumption.

I agree it's still not good enough but I can't get rid of the kids and pets so it will have to do.

@Mumminmum I just looked up washing nuts
@Venison I recently thought this. i'll still do what I can, but I will also enjoy the one life, on this one planet.

I do find it very hypocritical though, when a yoga teacher runs a retreat in a far off country (twice this year) and 2 days after landing talks about what human destruction behaviour is doing to the planet. I mean hello?

So you have had children which you acknowledge is 'bad' for the environment but now want everyone else to stop having holidays?

I don't have children but I bloody love my holidays and no I won't stop flying long haul unless I run out of money. You can save the world however you want but don't expect me to blindly follow you.

artio0

However, this is what puts it into perspective for me when I feel like I'm killing the earth single handedly: 100 companies are responsible for 71% of global emissions. That's 100 companies vs 7 billion people...

The thing is that those 100 companies don't exist independently of those 7 billion people. A large proportion of those 7 billion are consumers, customers or otherwise inextricably linked in economically with the 100 corporations. We need to deindustrialise and defossilise as much as possible. Things like recycling, though worthwhile to the extent of their significance, don't even touch the sides up against so many carbon emissions, plastic waste, hundreds of species going extinct daily etc etc.

destructive, not destruction.