To take my son's phone permanently?

[BeansMeansFun]

My son is 14, has a smart phone. It is well protected against adult content. He saved Christmas, Birthday and pocket money to get one he liked. I pay his credit on payg.

He was caught playing on it during lessons. This isn't acceptable so he lost the phone for two weeks and we told him to apologise to the teacher.

Part of having a smart phone was "if we want to check we can". Son was asked to unlock his phone this morning. He says he can't. Says he never lets it run out of charge so only uses finger print log in and can't remember his pin which is needed when phone restarts.

I know it runs out of charge occasionally. I know he knows the pin.

AIBU to say he's broken our trust and our agreement in regards to the smartphone and he's never getting it back?

He probably doesn't want to show you because there will be loads of swearing and silly jokes between his mates which he knows you won't like.
I think you need to tell him exactly what you are checking for when you check his phone (grooming? Porn?) To build up some trust between you.

He is 14, not 10. 14 year olds have a very different personality with their mates compared to with their parents and I do think it's unfair if he feels he has to keep his phone 'mum friendly.'

I think you sound like a parent who feels they are losing control and you are desperately trying to get in back - thing is with teens the more you push the more they pull, you need to tread carefully - he is no longer at the stage where you are bigger so you get what you want - the battles will be hellish if you take this approach. What are you expecting to find on his phone?

what a weird attitude Yes! To actually parent, to actually check that a child is safe on the internet, has boundaries in place and to respond whens something seems to be going wrong.

Very weird!

Back in the real world, Beans If he is not engaging with school and the pastoral team either then I would be looking further to see what has caused this behaviour. Keep in contact with the pastoral team, let them know you are also anxious and will support them in whatever steps they may want to take (keeping in mind they may not be free to tell you much they will be encouraging him to talk to you).

Good luck getting to the bottom of it!

If you really feel you must check his phone and he can't remember the pin then just get him to unlock it with his finger in front of you and you can look at it together that way he can see what you are looking at and it feels less like an invasion of privacy.

I genuinely don't quite see the point in checking DCs' phones with prior warning. Surely they would just delete anything they didn't want you to see? Most conversations are carried on via Snapchat which deletes automatically anyway. Let's face it, generally teens are going to be savvy enough to censor their phones for parents.

To me it seems a strategy that really hasn't "kept up" with the changes and prevalence of technology. Does anyone remember the "keep the PC in a family room and watch them using it?"

I think it's very important though to have regular talks with them about what they put out there and emphasise it can be copied and used against you forever. Also try and ensure they can talk to you without fear of punishment or judgement (within reason) if they are worried about something.

What are you expecting to find on his phone?

I'm concerned it's drugs or bullying. He knows why we check. It's not about his texts with his pals. Past checks were broswer history and apps.

We've talked about grooming, we've talked about why taking pictures of yourself in compromising situations is dumb, we've talked about how the Internet is forever and how to stay safe.

This is the first time he's refused a check. He gets to sit with us while we check. I can't work out if he's pissed cos he's being punished, kicking back because he feels like he's a grown up or if there's something sinister.

I am surprised at how many 14 year olds get complete access to the Internet with no checks. Adult content is blocked by the mobile provider and our Internet. But how can you stop them downloading stuff at mates houses? Or stuff sent to them? Do those who think I'm controlling not mind that their child could be viewing pornography?

To a certain extent I would compare it to parents in the 1980s insisting on sitting to me and listening to me on the landline to my friends talking for hours despite having seem them at school 30 mins ago.

It's hard to allow privacy while keeping them safe, isn't it? I also think it's important for parents to educate ourselves on how to set up safety controls/restrictions on their phones. Apple seem to be pretty good for this if it's set up as a "family" although perhaps savvy teens could get round this? The new screen time facility is very interesting and actually embarrasses me when I see mine

If they want to see porn they’ll find it and view it.

Better to teach them to be responsible than to try to lock that particular door. A mate will send a video on snapchat for eg and it will go after viewing and you will never know.

then just get him to unlock it with his finger in front of you and you can look at it together

He is always there for checks as we use it to talk about why he has to be careful. The phone ran out of charge and now needs pin and fingerprint. His school is awful for theft and we agreed to him having tight security in case it was stolen.

This is part of the problem though beans isn't it, they could do it at a friend's house or just delete stuff.

Do you know his account details, if it's Apple? Could you sign in with his email address and password etc on another phone? Yes it probably is an invasion of privacy for some people (and to me to a certain extent), but I also think if you have specific concerns it would be justified, IMO.

For us, the issue with the kids phones (both have iPhones which we can control with various settings to an extent) is not what they do, but what others may do, and send to them, or request from them.

Checking phones is something our two agreed to also (they are 12 and 10) and on every single ocassion I have found them to be acting as expected. Sure, not to my taste, but within what I would consider to be "normal" behaviour for their ages.

We do pay for the phone contracts, but that is not whay we feel we have the right to check on them. It's beacuse they are children,a nd we are parents. The OPs child is 14. Child.

At 14 yrs old they still need protection.

14/15 you need to be loosening off though. It’s not the same as when they are 10 or 12.

We have the Qustodio App on our son's phone. It sets time limits, feeds back text message content and shows what You Tube and webpages have been accessed. We pay for the phone and it's our rules or no phone . By keeping track we can make sure he is using it appropriately. It can be vital in situations like bullying etc to have the texts for evidence . We filter out adult content .
Young people do need guidance and protection when using these devices.Better to be proactive than end up with unpleasant situations?

YRBU

What he's saying about not knowing the PIN is rubbish. Even when charged, all of them ask for the PIN every couple of days to activate the fingerprint log-in. He's lying to you about that.

Hold onto it for a couple of days, then give it back to him, telling him, "you have 20 minutes to delete anything you don't want me to see", then have a look through it.
He's a 14 year old lad. He's probably got some vaguely soft porn-y pictures on there he wouldn't want his parents to see, plus some weird apps.

You say his behaviour generally has gone downhill... I'd be digging more into the cause of that, rather than getting tied up in this one issue.

You're

I suppose if you really want access to it you'll have to go down the lines of you keeping it until he 'remembers' the passcode but it all seems a bit mean to me, he's a teenager.

You can't stop them because someone else will always have access to this kind of stuff. At 14 you have to rely on educating your teen. What gone wrong - his body has just been hit with a massive dose of hormones - hang out in the teen section...14 years old is the age that is mentioned most... My own kids hit this stage at 14 too, after over reacting I checked myself and my behaviour and learnt how to parent a teen (I read several excellent books) and life got better - they stopped fighting me.
Teens will accept rules and discipline to an extent but push it a tiny bit too far and they will push back, and then you start to enter into a battle of tit for tat and you can't win without significantly damaging your relationship with them - influencing a teen is much easier when they respect your opinion.

I really don't think that at 14, as a general rule, you should have an app that feeds back to you the content of every text message, unless you have massive concerns about what your 14 is sending in texts, and in that case they shouldn't really have a phone at all.

I'd still do what you're doing... he will remember eventually.

If you just give it him back now he's "won", he will know he can refuse your requests and you'll just give in!

I’m always shocked at those who say it’s wrong to check on ‘childrens’ phones as it breaches their privacy.

Privacy should not come above safety for a child.

I check DD’s phone often with her knowledge and it shocks me what some of her friends are putting online - clearly without their parents either seeing it or caring enough to stop it. Risky behaviour that puts them at risk of serious harm. Yet I’m sure their parents value the ‘privacy’ they give them.

Tell your DS that he can have it back when he gives you access as per the agreement.

it isn't controlling to check your 14 year old's phone

Of course it is! Yes there is a myriad on risks on the internet but as a parent the only thing you can do is educate your child on these, snooping on a 14 year old who deserves some privacy is not the way to go round this.

My dd is only 10 but the conversations on mumsnet around phones amaze me. At 13 most posters agrphone should be checked but at 14 not so much so. I know there can be massive differences in maturity between a 13 and 14 yo but they are still young teens, aren’t they?

Having hosted dds cousin from 13 for weeks at a time, we still had rules, which slacked off for her own safety over the years. She was a dream teen at home as well so I treated her for the most part as a peer still while remembering I was inloco parentis.

Obviously this is a far cry from actual parenting. What I’m saying is even the easiest and maturest of young teen needs to be protected. So I would have thought looking over a phone from time to time at 14 would be wise.

argphone = agree phones

It actually isn't helpful to say "do x at 12 and y at 13 and z at 14" because it really totally depends on the individual child. You can't have set rules for age for these things - one of mine was much more mature than another, for example.

Your recent post makes much more sense as to why you want to check it. You're not just randomly looking but have genuine concerns.
I think you need to have an open conversation with him saying you are concerned about drugs or bullying. That you are not interested in the other stuff and whilst you might not like what you find on his phone there won't be punishment unless it is illegal/ cruel.
If it is bullying or drugs he needs to know that you will find out one way or the other so best to go through the phone and deal with it now rather than you having you go in to school to talk about it (embarrassing!)

Good luck OP

TBH porn is the least of my worries with teenage boys. It’s the drugs and county lines stuff that worries me.
It’s on a par with grooming and they can quickly get drawn into something they can’t get out of.
I’m not saying that’s what’s happening with your son OP, but it’s something for all parents to be aware of.