Treated like a shitty parent because our son is cutting/suicidal, just need to vent

[Greensleeves]

DS1 is 16 and has Asperger's. For the past few years, despite suffering bullying at school (which we were very proactive and supportive about) he's blossomed into a confident, responsible, articulate and lovely young man with great, close-knit friends and does very well at school.

The past couple of months everything has gone to hell and it's happened so fast we don't know what's hit us. He has a new girlfriend who has anorexia and has made several suicide attempts, which i'm sure is a factor. He lost his virginity to her a couple of weeks ago and is really obsessed with her CAMHS told us to take his phone away at night because he was messaging with her literally all night and was exhausted. He sees this as an infringement of his human rights and it's a nightly battle. He's cutting himself, he's having explosive rages (almost exclusively at me), saying irrational and often very cruel things, writing reams of abuse about himself all over his bedroom furniture. I think the effort of "doing so well" has been too much strain on him for too long, I think he's dealing with some unresolved grief about having ASD because we've always been relentlessly positive and "it's not a disability", maybe we haven't left room for him to have those feelings.
Sometimes he cries and clings to me like a toddler, then other times he screams and spits in my face that he's not my son. He says he hates himself. He's hurt me once (he didn't hit me, he grabbed my arm with both hands and squeezed really hard) and I feel intimidated by him when he's angry. I spent one night at A&E with him on suicide watch and we had an emergency CAMHS assessment in the morning. We've since had one CAMHS family therapy session and DS is on the waiting list for CBT as well. DH and I have been treated like criminals and don't feel like anyone wants to help or advise us on how to handle things, we just feel out in the cold.

The family therapy session was horrific. There were two therapists there, ds1 and me and dh. DS1 said awful, destructive things about us, some of which were just factually untrue. We said we were out of our depth, unsure of how we should be coping with his mood swings, especially the explosions of rage etc (because of my own abusive background I'm not great with people who are bigger than me screaming in my face), and asked for advice. They told us we were following an unhealthy script, by dh staying calm and logical and trying to get ds to talk about what is behind the rages/cutting, and me trying to hide the fact that I get upset. But ds1 said "we all know she's crying upstairs, she's not exactly quiet about it ffs" and said he would rather we were more real with him. But when I got upset in the session (because he said there was no trust between us and he would never come to me with a problem) he said I was weak and I was making him responsible for my feelings. The therapists asked us to "step out for ten minutes" so they could ask ds1 about the specifics of his suicidal thoughts (he has made concrete plans to [redacted*] ). They left us out there for 45 minutes, then brought ds1 out and just said they want to see him again in two weeks. DH said "sorry, but you've told us we're doing everything wrong but given us no guidance on how to do better" and the guy just sort of spread his hands and said "do nothing...we've had a great chat with ds1, maybe things will start to get better now". We don't even know if the appointment in 2 weeks is for all of us or just ds1.

Since the appointment ds1 has completely blanked me - not his dad - won't even say goodnight to me, pretends I don't exist. He's chatting about politics and Brexit and usual stuff, completely oblivious...dh was in tears after they'd gone to bed last night, it feels like we're falling apart.

The thing is, I feel angry with ds1, which makes me so ashamed. The only thing I really felt proud of was that I'd managed to break the cycle and bring up two basically healthy, secure kids without abusing them or destroying them. And it's been taken away. We failed. I've lost my confidence and feel like I can't even ask ds2 to do his homework because we're shit, failed parents now. And I'm angry with him for telling the CAMHS workers there's no connection and no trust between us, after all the hours I've spent cleaning his wounds, stroking his hair, holding his hand, listening to him pour out his feelings in the middle of the night. He said he would never consider coming to me with his problems, but two weeks ago he appeared in my doorway in the middle of the night [having cut himself] and said "please help me, mum". It's like I've slipped into a parallel universe.

I know this post is disgustingly self-indulgent and me me me. But RL is where everything is about ds1 and what we do next and how we support him and love him through this. I just wanted somewhere I could pour all the me me me stuff out.

• [Post edited by MNHQ to remove mention of suicide methods, in line with guidance from the Samaritans]

Oh dear, what a horrible situation. That sounds absolutely nightmarish for all of you. I don't think there are any parents who could deal with that "well" and you're absolutely not shit or failed parents, you're normal parents in a dreadful situation.

Is there any way you could access counselling on your own at the moment, so you have somewhere safe to start offloading and managing your grief and anger? You need to look after yourself as well.

Good luck to you all.

I'm really sorry things are so tough. I feel rage on your behalf at your son but then I'm not very good at accepting the selfishness of depressed people! Is he on any sort of medication by the way?

However, I can't see where you have been treated like a shitty parent and at this stage it might be best to have faith in what the family therapist is doing? It's very early days.

As for the rest of it - with your dh's agreement, I would go away for a couple of days break.

You're allowed to have feelings too.

You haven't failed. There isn't some finish line where how-the-kids-turned-out is measured and judged pass/fail. Your ds1 and the rest of you are having a tough time at the moment and you are all working hard to come through it.
Assume that the next appointment is for all of you again (although they will probably want to speak to ds1 alone again at some point). If you have questions, take them and ask them. In fact, it might be worth ringing ds1's camhs worker sooner and having a conversation with them about some of the things you have mentioned here. They should have discussed risk management with you, at least. As a general rule, family therapy works when everyone is heard and understood.

That's the thing, we thought family therapy would give us a chance for all of us to talk and be heard and for us to ask for guidance on how to do better going forward. Instead we just listened to an onslaught from ds1 about how horrible we are, then we were chucked out in the corridor, told it would be for 10 minutes, left for 45 and then basically told to leave with all our questions unanswered...it felt like they were cutting us out of the equation because we're obviously so crap and so damaging that he's better off talking to them without us in there.

Doesn't help that we've been talked to like we're scum by hospital staff, school safeguarding etc since this started. I know I'm being fragile but it hurts, we're doing our best.

I can't afford counselling for myself right now but I did think about maybe ringing the national autistic society or similar to see if there was someone who could give us advice about managing his behaviour and risk. CAMHS seem to be ignoring the fact that he has ASD and I think it's a pretty big factor.

I’m so sorry for what you’re going through OP, it sounds incredibly difficult.

You remind me of my mum a bit, the way you talk about breaking the cycle of abuse etc. My mum had a very abusive background too, her sole aim in life was to have children and to bring them up in better circumstances than she had to endure.

She achieved this. We adored her as children but she was possibly too nice and tried so hard to avoid conflict (she was and remains quite afraid of conflict due to her upbringing) that we definitely sensed her fragility when we were teenagers and we would shamelessly play on it at times. Which is what I believe your son might be doing when he refers to your crying upstairs, not being “real” and being “weak”. My younger sister used exactly these phrases when blaming my mother for everything that went wrong in her life. I believe she did it because she knew no matter what our mother’s love was unconditional so she could be used as an emotional punch bag.

I would agree with the pp who suggested counseling for yourself, I think it might really help not just with your son but also with your upbringing?

For what it’s worth we all have a great relationship with our mother now (we’re in our late 20s to early 30s). We’ve gained the perspective that only comes with age and are so grateful for how tirelessly she supported us to achieve our goals and put us first no matter what.

I don’t have experience with ASD or the problems your son is going through so apologies if my comment is completely off the mark. Take care, I really hope things improve for your family soon x

How many sessions have you been to at camhs altogether? Have you had specific assessment sessions or was the family therapy visit the very first one?

Thanks reforder, I think there's definitely something in that. I'm no wallflower in my adult life, but I am extremely paranoid about hurting or damaging the kids or giving them bad memories, I always have been. And he did say in the session that he directs all the rage at me because his dad doesn't respond, you might as well shout at a cyberman (which upset dh because he isn't a cold unemotional dad at all)

Poor ds1 is obviously in terrible pain, that's what's at the centre of all this. And since he's been blowing up in my face and saying all these awful things, he hasn't cut himself, so I guess it's actually an improvement. I do think he knows deep down that nothing could ever shake our love for him and it's safe to let out all the pain at us. It's just so hard....he sneers, he laughs like he's achieved something when I do get upset, he goads me, he physically intimidates me and I have to just absorb it all.

CAMHS seem to be ignoring the fact that he has ASD and I think it's a pretty big factor.
A huge factor surely? It's so got to be taken into account not only because it could be triggering his feelings but also in how he processes them. Black & white thinking for instance - it's an all or nothing approach & it will affect what he's saying & what he's feeling. You can't just treat someone with ASD in the same way that you would if they had the same depression etc. but without ASD.
Try the NAS - you've nothing to lose and they may have some useful ideas or contacts. And if you can get some individual counselling (or for you & DH) then I would.
And don't take it personally. The autistic brain is a wonderful thing except when it kicks into a destructive mode. He still needs you and he still loves you, it's just his brain is all tangled up. (And I'm speaking from experience of being tangled up!) Hang in there.

We had the emergency assessment by CAMHS at the hospital, then another assessment meeting, then the first "family therapy" session.

The thing is, I feel angry with ds1, which makes me so ashamed. The only thing I really felt proud of was that I'd managed to break the cycle and bring up two basically healthy, secure kids without abusing them or destroying them. And it's been taken away. We failed.

Absolutely not. You are providing him with love and support. He knows he is safe with you - that's why his rages (and silences) are aimed at you. He knows you are not going anywhere. Why should you feel ashamed for feeling angry with him? He's hurling abuse at you, you're running yourself into the ground trying to help him, and then he denies it all to the CAMHS workers. I think that would piss anyone off. Being angry is a totally normal reaction.

I wish I had advice for you. Mental health provision for teenagers is woefully lacking. I have had friends who have had children with somewhat similar behaviour (although from an earlier age, and probably more extreme, to be honest) and it was nothing to do with parenting. And they have settled down over time. One (hard) truth though, is that he is his own person - all the support in the world can't force him to take the help that is offered. And you can't do it for him.

I have a daughter who is very likely on the autistic spectrum. She's only 6 right now, but I am dreading the teenage years. That combination of hormones and being different is horrendous. And I am very aware of how easy it is for me to blithely talk about personal responsibility, when all I want to do is protect my daughter from the world. Maybe I should bookmark this thread, so that I can read it in ten years time, and grimace at my naivety.

The thing is they probably were only planning on 10 minutes alone with DS but then he started sharing or opening up a lot more than they were expecting and felt more progress could be made with you out of the room. Additionally as he is 16 I believe he has the right to ask for you not to be present if he doesn't want you to hear things he wants to discuss.
ASD affects different people differently (and everyone autistic or not reacts slightly differently) so I imagine they adapt their sessions on how the individual responds rather than having a set of rules as to how to treat all autistic people and in all honesty this is a better approach anyway.
CAMHS are underfunded and unfortunately don't have time to consider the feelings of the parent. If you are feeling like you need your own support speak to you GP about getting a referral to adults mental health services.

I know CAMHS is horribly underfunded, we were surprised that we were offered therapy so quickly and we really wanted to engage with it.

It's not that they didn't consider our feelings, it's that we were told everything we were doing was wrong and unhealthy, then sent away with no guidance given on how to do better moving foward, it's made us feel really confused and it's actually made our family dynamic much worse. None of us knows how to even talk to each other right now. DS1 is literally pretending I don't exist.

i will try the NAS for advice, I do think his ASD needs to be at the centre of any approach and I don't feel it is at the moment.

Fuck. Oh my god you are not being self indulgent at all, your post actually brought me to tears, I'm really sorry you are going through this, it sounds so incredibly difficult.

I really don't have any advice with this but I just wanted to post to say that you sound like a bloody fantastic parent and I really hope that you all get the help that you need.

I'm really sorry that I can't be of any more help x

Hi - just to say I sympathise. DD1’s psychologist told me I needed to make more time for her. It was only after I put the phone down I thought ‘hang on’. I was sitting with her for at least a couple of hours every morning at that point, sometimes all day, if she needed it. But somehow to her I didn’t give her time.
DD3 told her therapist in front of us that she didn’t feel close to any of us except DD2 and ranted about how badly she was treated - won’t go into detail but astonishingly petty stuff at 14.
It’s really hurtful but I think you’re right that a lot is just venting. Also I think children and teens absolutely believe whatever they are feeling right now - it’s only when you’re a bit older that you can get more perspective on your feelings and realise that even very powerful emotions may not last and/or may not be justified. I don’t know how the ASD might work with that.
Nothing helpful to add - just cut yourself some slack and some for the therapists. Ring them and tell them how you think he’s painted a false picture. They only know what they’re told.
It’s a hard hard place to be xxx

I really feel for you. I have recent experience of something similar, the sense that I had failed as a parent in the most basic task - to keep my child safe - was overwhelming. Our involvement with MH services has been more positive than yours, but even with that support the last couple of weeks nearly broke me.

16 is a really difficult age - with some services, the child is the client, there is no visibility of what is happening, parents are utterly excluded. With other services, we are made to feel 100% responsible for not only everything that has happened, but also everything that needs to happen going forward. I can only encourage you to continue to believe in yourself as a parent, no matter how assailed you feel; and to have faith that it will get better. Take care

I can't express how much the supportive posts and people's similar experiences are helping. Thank you so much. It has all happened so quickly, we've been blindsided and I think we're still in shock a bit and feeling quite isolated (and ashamed) IRL.

I've got absolutely nothing to add, except that you sound so lovely and like such a great mother. Your love for your son, and the care and guidance you've given him thus far is so evident in your OP.

I realise this is of little help at this moment in time, but you can be sure you absolutely haven't failed him.

It sounds like an awful situation. Is there any way you could get away for a few days on your own?

Also I think children and teens absolutely believe whatever they are feeling right now

I think this is key. How on earth an outsider, no matter how experienced, can cut through and understand where a child is really NEVER listened to or loved, I don't know, but they certainly can't on a first session.

I once found something my teenage dd had written saying that she had always hated me ever since she was small. I was so hurt. But it was just the way a teenager throws themselves in any feeling they have at that moment.

I have no experience of ASD, but my experience of being a mother of a teenager was that my own fears feed into the problem. In my case, we lived in a really rough area and I was so scared of all the dangers my dd faced, that that fed into my reactions and that fed into our conflicts. You are really scared of failing as a mother and this is all feeding into your reactions, which is perfectly understandable. But you do sound really self-aware.

It would be good if you could get some therapy, but maybe even here on mumsnet you can get some help with the hang-ups you naturally have from your abusive childhood.

Greensleeves please try to get past feeling ashamed. Initially I found it very hard to let people know what was going on - but I have heard nothing but reassurance and support from those I have told. I have never felt more strongly the truth that it takes a village to raise a child - by talking to people you can find your 'village'. In our case, that's not just been my friends, but colleagues at work, parents of my son's friends, staff at his sixth form, the list goes on. I was anxious that we would be judged but actually the overwhelming response is 'There but for the grace of god ...'. Please have the confidence to reach out.

You haven't failed as a parent and I strongly doubt that the therapists who saw you thought this. Unfortunately it sounds as though they are very busy and focused only on your dc. I worked in a specific dc therapy team where we had individual workers for dc and separate ones for carers to manage this very common problem but we were a charity and had much better funding than CAMHS. You need individual support for you, this is normal and appropriate. Dc's therapists are likely to engage with whatever dc bring them as their lived experience at that moment, but that doesn't mean they switch of their critical facilities and don't notice your interactions with your dc or the fact that if you care for your dc during self harm etc. Honestly these things become clear through therapy. Also hurt dc often want to hurt those around them and will say whatever they think will cause each person most pain, so dad is a cyberman for him, mum can't manage her emotions for you. It isn't always that is what dc think so much as they reckon that is the quickest way of hurting you as much as they feel hurt. Being a parent is really hard at times, try not to imagine people are judging you, they really shouldn't be.

Gosh, sorry for the lack of paragraphs.

Oh I feel for you, the relentless nature of seeing your child in distress, guilt, being told that you’re falling short but not being given practical help in addressing perceived shortcomings.

As a pp said, I would hope that the first session just ran away with itself and the therapist wanted to get a fuller picture of ds’ viewpoint while he was on a roll.

Much as you are in therapy as a family, ultimately, ds is the primary client and I would assume that him laying out problems/venting would be judged to take precedence in that first session.

I do think that school ,and the social expectations that come with that, encourages a degree of appearing to cope with things during the school day which actually cause great anxiety and discomfort to someone with ASD and overwhelm healthy coping skills.

You’re not failing your son, it’s clear that you are motivated to help him. Although your ds’ ASD is most probably central to this, I think developing different ways of interacting and healthier coping skills when feelings overwhelm is more helpful than CAMHS saying “that’s just part and parcel of ASD” and knocking back the referral.

Hoping that future sessions are better for you

I cannot imagine anyone thinks you are being bad parents. At the moment I suspect CAHMS are making it about your DS so he has someone visibly in his corner because for whatever reason he has temporarily knocked you both as his DPs out of it. So they are coming across to your DS on his side as a temporary to earn his trust I suspect.

I totally agree about the counselling for yourself. I suspect your DS will come out of this in his own good time. He is probably totally struggling to process his relationship issues and using you as a punchbag for things that are way outside his range of coping skills.

Definitely the ASD needs to be considered in the treatment.

You poor thing. You have not failed. This is a dark time but things will lift. You both need much more support.

The ASD mask of needing to appear normal is all powerful. It leads to leaks and then meltdown as the mental stress of upholding the mask is too great.

We used the Children's Society for counselling and therapy for under 19's. They were skilled.

We also used NAS. They offer specialist counsellors and advice in our area.

Our Camhs has ASD specialists who adapt CBT and other therapy to help. Their help has been excellent. They supply anti anxiety meds which have really helped.

You are doing a good job. You have only ever done your best. This is the hardest path you will ever have to tread and you are doing it with love. That is all you can do.
Let him know he is loved, in whatever way is best to communicate this.

Sending hugs xx