Treated like a shitty parent because our son is cutting/suicidal, just need to vent

[Greensleeves]

DS1 is 16 and has Asperger's. For the past few years, despite suffering bullying at school (which we were very proactive and supportive about) he's blossomed into a confident, responsible, articulate and lovely young man with great, close-knit friends and does very well at school.

The past couple of months everything has gone to hell and it's happened so fast we don't know what's hit us. He has a new girlfriend who has anorexia and has made several suicide attempts, which i'm sure is a factor. He lost his virginity to her a couple of weeks ago and is really obsessed with her CAMHS told us to take his phone away at night because he was messaging with her literally all night and was exhausted. He sees this as an infringement of his human rights and it's a nightly battle. He's cutting himself, he's having explosive rages (almost exclusively at me), saying irrational and often very cruel things, writing reams of abuse about himself all over his bedroom furniture. I think the effort of "doing so well" has been too much strain on him for too long, I think he's dealing with some unresolved grief about having ASD because we've always been relentlessly positive and "it's not a disability", maybe we haven't left room for him to have those feelings.
Sometimes he cries and clings to me like a toddler, then other times he screams and spits in my face that he's not my son. He says he hates himself. He's hurt me once (he didn't hit me, he grabbed my arm with both hands and squeezed really hard) and I feel intimidated by him when he's angry. I spent one night at A&E with him on suicide watch and we had an emergency CAMHS assessment in the morning. We've since had one CAMHS family therapy session and DS is on the waiting list for CBT as well. DH and I have been treated like criminals and don't feel like anyone wants to help or advise us on how to handle things, we just feel out in the cold.

The family therapy session was horrific. There were two therapists there, ds1 and me and dh. DS1 said awful, destructive things about us, some of which were just factually untrue. We said we were out of our depth, unsure of how we should be coping with his mood swings, especially the explosions of rage etc (because of my own abusive background I'm not great with people who are bigger than me screaming in my face), and asked for advice. They told us we were following an unhealthy script, by dh staying calm and logical and trying to get ds to talk about what is behind the rages/cutting, and me trying to hide the fact that I get upset. But ds1 said "we all know she's crying upstairs, she's not exactly quiet about it ffs" and said he would rather we were more real with him. But when I got upset in the session (because he said there was no trust between us and he would never come to me with a problem) he said I was weak and I was making him responsible for my feelings. The therapists asked us to "step out for ten minutes" so they could ask ds1 about the specifics of his suicidal thoughts (he has made concrete plans to [redacted*] ). They left us out there for 45 minutes, then brought ds1 out and just said they want to see him again in two weeks. DH said "sorry, but you've told us we're doing everything wrong but given us no guidance on how to do better" and the guy just sort of spread his hands and said "do nothing...we've had a great chat with ds1, maybe things will start to get better now". We don't even know if the appointment in 2 weeks is for all of us or just ds1.

Since the appointment ds1 has completely blanked me - not his dad - won't even say goodnight to me, pretends I don't exist. He's chatting about politics and Brexit and usual stuff, completely oblivious...dh was in tears after they'd gone to bed last night, it feels like we're falling apart.

The thing is, I feel angry with ds1, which makes me so ashamed. The only thing I really felt proud of was that I'd managed to break the cycle and bring up two basically healthy, secure kids without abusing them or destroying them. And it's been taken away. We failed. I've lost my confidence and feel like I can't even ask ds2 to do his homework because we're shit, failed parents now. And I'm angry with him for telling the CAMHS workers there's no connection and no trust between us, after all the hours I've spent cleaning his wounds, stroking his hair, holding his hand, listening to him pour out his feelings in the middle of the night. He said he would never consider coming to me with his problems, but two weeks ago he appeared in my doorway in the middle of the night [having cut himself] and said "please help me, mum". It's like I've slipped into a parallel universe.

I know this post is disgustingly self-indulgent and me me me. But RL is where everything is about ds1 and what we do next and how we support him and love him through this. I just wanted somewhere I could pour all the me me me stuff out.

• [Post edited by MNHQ to remove mention of suicide methods, in line with guidance from the Samaritans]

Greensleeves, my son is 19 now and we have a fantastic relationship, despite his difficulties. The things he said when he was 16 were the product of his anger at the world and his total fear of what was happening to him.

I think it is important to work with the professionals, but no-one knows your son as well as you. Your son loves you and you are doing exactly the right thing by working with the professionals.

I am now working with people in his residence and with my son to see what may be the best way forward.

TAmum - Yes! My son is in residential care because he needs a team around him to keep him safe.

I doubt the therapists are taking everything your ds1 is saying as gospel. In early sessions therapists are primarily trying to understand how everyone is feeling/thinking about what is going on. Appearing shocked by what is said or openly disagreeing or questioning your client (and although it is called family therapy, it is your ds who is the focus here) would likely be really counter-productive. They're trying to create a situation where your ds feels he can be absolutely honest about what he's feeling.

I've heard young people say terrible things to/about their parents. The conclusion I've usually drawn is "this young person is upset/angry".

I wonder if maybe the therapists think of you more positively than you seem to be imagining here. It sounds like the conversation they had with your son about risk mushroomed into something more, but it really is absolutely normal for those questions to be asked without the parents present. It's no judgement on you. And if the young person was at risk then you would be informed - and given further support - in order to help keep them safe.

The therapists should absolutely not be offended by you asking about if/how they are adapting for your ds' autism. It's a perfectly reasonable question. It's also fairly routine for clients to request a change of therapist.

Your ds should have an allocated therapist - you should be able to ring them to have a conversation about the way you're feeling. They're there to help.

I've had experience of some of the things you describe, especially the guilt at feeling angry with my child when they were suffering. I spoke to the camhs therapist and she helped me to work out that my anger stemmed from the fact that I was trying, like you, not to damage my child the way my parents damaged theirs. The fact that I was doing everything I could, and gave him so much more support than I had ever had, and he was STILL desperately unhappy made me furious, but the anger was really with myself because I didn't know how to help him so I felt a failure.(she also stressed that my solutions to problems are only suitable for me, and not right for everyone).

It was also made clear to me that camhs treat the child, not me. Could you go back to your GP and ask to be referred to a family therapy specialist? I know there will be a terrible waiting list but it might be worth a try. Good luck to you. For what it's worth I used to self harm, I am still here and I stopped years ago.

I think I'm probably putting far too much emotional energy into worrying about what CAMHS/school/others think about me as a parent, and it's probably because I already feel oversensitive and guilty that things have got this bad for DS1, so I'm projecting massively. I do see what you're saying, that their role is to establish a good working relationship with DS1 and that he needs to feel listened to, whether or not I feel that what he's saying in therapy is "fair". This thread is so helpful because it's helping me to separate out my feelings from what's actually happening. I really need to understand this and get my head around it, so I don't go into the next session with a huge chip on my shoulder, feeling defensive and make everything worse.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm going round in circles, I'm reading and rereading every single post and it's incredibly valuable

Could you focus on whats happening right now and try not to judge your own parenting. That part is coming out of lack of confidence because of your own childhood. Sometimes dc letting it all out is not bad parenting but actual good as they are being given a chance to express their feelings. Your ds has a lot of pain now but he wont always be like that. Believe that right now you are the parent for him. You sound wonderful and your love is not in question so hold tight until the storm passes.

We went through a bad phase with our ds at that age. A lot do but not many talk about it. Our ds found a weakness in my dh ..an area he was vunerable in and wow did he attack him. Recently that ds acknowledged that he did that nearly deliberately as he had some much pain he needed to get it out and went for the juggler. My dh took it on the chin and gradually ds came out of that black hole and is doing well now. A lot was said but the air was cleared and we were stronger for it. At the time it seemed like a disaster and our whole family falling apart.
Try to separate your own childhood from the reality today. You will come through this. I could say a lot but it would be too long.

I think their opinion of us is already pretty low.

I very much doubt that! The therapists I saw had seen some really shit parenting. Or rather, they saw the results of the parenting but they didn't get to meet the parents at all because most really shit parents don't engage with family therapists. I'm sure they didn't think I was Mrs Perfect Parent of ASC child all the time either (well I know for sure they didn't at one or two points!) but I was trying and that's the most any parent can do. And they could advise but it was me and DH having to do it.

Try not to even worry about having a chip on your shoulder. You wont be the first parent who comes in with heavy emotional baggage. They are there to help your family and whatever you bring to the room it's OK, they should be able to understand and work with your feelings too because you are one of the key people supporting your DS.

It does make me think this could be a good time to follow up your own therapy if you can, because your DS's behaviour is adding to the anxieties about failing as a parent which come from your own abusive childhood. I'm an insight therapy veteran myself (a few different sorts) and FWIW I can recommend it. It sounds as if having someone who is just there to listen to you would be good for you and indirectly benefit DS too.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I have a toddler and can’t imagine the grief you must be feeling having raised him from a baby. This must just be a phase that you all come out the other side of. I really hope so. I’m so sorry I have no advice, I wouldn’t know where to start.

Sending 💐💐💐💐

I am so sorry you are going through this...
I have an asd son 17, and 14 yr old dsd (ft resident) with mh, under cahms.
It is very hard managing the emotions of teenagers at the best of times let alone with additional needs. Cahms unfortuntly dont have thr capabilites to deal with parents as in depth as i think they would like, i have check ins every few weeks but it doesnt cover everything. They work out a plan with the child, then inform you after. I have never but respect for them but they are so underfunded. In terms of asd if anything like my son, they only see their world. Find it hard to manage others feelings (not all) and their emotions are heightened. I would recomemend informing your gp of the situation they maybe able to access some support for you. I dont think your doing anything wrong, if anything he feels like yoir his safety net taking out his anger on youis safe as you are notgoing anywhere. Backwards thinking but its true. My dsd got worst when she came to us ft, as she felt safe enough to do so, she didnthave to hide it anymore (she was worst then what your son sounds like) . Be warned it may get worst as he goes through counselling, but he will come out the otherside ok. Just be ready to accept whenhe does withoit any hate for what he has put you through. Really really hard and please seek oit some support for you. I have carers center onside, and try to get some respite when possible, but both arewith me 24/7. Not in school because of their needs. Plus 2 younger children. If you ever wanna chat just pm me xxx

Keep reminding yourself that your son is suffering from an illness - it’s mental not physical, but it’s an illness just the same. You may have got things wrong in the past - we all do - but that doesn’t make you the cause of his problems. And as with any illness you have to be the grown up making sure he gets the treatment he needs even if he doesn’t want it. It’s so tough, but you know it’s what a loving mum has to do. If anyone is judgy, they’re an arse.

DS1 really upset DH this morning, and we're not sure how we should respond . I was having a lie-in but both our boys wanted to go out today and wanted money to buy lunch out. DS1 is going to be out until fairly late, so wanted money for lunch and dinner (he can eat something when he gets home, of course, but he'll be out at usual dinner time). We're not particularly flush at the moment and trying to save a bit for Christmas. DH said he could have £10. DS1 kicked off and said that was mean, DH said it was what we could afford. DS1 said really cuttingly "that's because you've taken up smoking again". It's not the first time he's had a go at us for wasting money (on coffee out, for example) and he's said he hates having to "apply" to us for money and risk the "rejection" if we say no, but he refused the option of a regular allowance instead as he thinks he'd end up with less money that way than we currently give him.

It's really hurt DH, he has started smoking again recently (not heavily) and it's largely because of the stress we've been under with DS1. He didn't say that to him, he just gave him the £10. Part of me thinks he should have said "no money at all then, if you're going to behave like a spoiled brat", but DH said he was so upset he just wanted to get him out of the house.

Any advice on what we say to him when he gets home? DH wants to tell him how much it upset him. He thinks because DS1 has accused him of being an unemotional cyberman and asked him to be more "real", he should tell him the reason he's smoking is because life is hell at the moment and he's stressed. But that would be making DS1 responsible for our feelings/choices. And it's Sunday, he has school tomorrow, and if we challenge him at all there will be a huge bust-up.

I never used to be this clueless!

DH wants to tell him how much it upset him. He thinks because DS1 has accused him of being an unemotional cyberman and asked him to be more "real", he should tell him the reason he's smoking is because life is hell at the moment and he's stressed. But that would be making DS1 responsible for our feelings/choices. And it's Sunday, he has school tomorrow, and if we challenge him at all there will be a huge bust-up.

Well, you could possibly both treat what DS said as so much meaningless mouth-noise because DS is probably only saying it to vent his disappointment and push the responsibility off himself, and the quickest way is to blame someone else. The cutting tone is (probably) an ASC thing and you can ignore that.

If your DH does want to say something then he could keep it simple and specific - "When you say X I feel Y and I would like you to Z". So, "when you blamed me for smoking/the family being short of moneyI felt hurt and I would like you to say sorry." Do not blame DS for the stress or the smoking though - DS can't help stressing DH out, and you are right that how your DH responds to stress is his own responsibility, not DS's.

It may not be worth going there, though, not if it's just going to lead a meltdown. It may just re-ignite the fight over money and blame. Your DS having autism he may not be able to cope with being told someone else feels hurt. He may not really understand it or know what to do with the information (which is why I think it's important to tell him something to do at the end, like saying sorry). In the long run you might want to look at social stories for how to communicate - I used to plan how to explain things to DS using a social story approach, but without actually writing it down and reading it to him.

he's said he hates having to "apply" to us for money and risk the "rejection" if we say no, but he refused the option of a regular allowance instead as he thinks he'd end up with less money that way than we currently give him.

Sigh!!! Possible solution/compromise - you give him an allowance and he can ask for extra and risk rejection less often? And if he budgets well then he wont have to ask for extra and risk rejection at all.

Those are just suggestions, feel free to ignore what doesn't fit. It must be really hard to judge what to do for the best.

And ... apologies to you, DH and DS if this is way off base and too much projection but... I am also wondering if your DS has accused DH of being a cyberman because DS can't "read" his feelings easily and DS needs to be told how your DH feels at that moment. Maybe it's not about your DH's deeper feelings at all but simply that your DS can't judge whether your DH is pleased or angry or hurt or whatever.

And possibly the main feeling that your DH needs to put across are positive ones. Maybe your DS is way too proud to ask, and maybe he doesn't even realise it himself, but I've never yet heard of a youngster who didn't want to be told any number of times that his Dad is pleased with him and approves of him.

DS1 said really cuttingly "that's because you've taken up smoking again"
Technically (and this is important when you're autistic!) he's right because smoking uses money & therefore there's less left. So in his mind it is DH's fault, he just doesn't see why DH has started smoking again.
I think right now you need to pick your battles wisely, for all your sake's. Pull him up when he's being a real git, let things slide a bit for the rest. And keep reminding yourself that he's unlikely to mean anything personally. You and DH have to keep reminding each other that you're doing fine & see it through together.

I am also wondering if your DS has accused DH of being a cyberman because DS can't "read" his feelings easily and DS needs to be told how your DH feels at that moment. Maybe it's not about your DH's deeper feelings at all but simply that your DS can't judge whether your DH is pleased or angry or hurt or whatever.
Could be on to something there. And a definite yay to giving DS lots of positives where possible. Let's face it, everyone needs to be told positives!

My DC are much younger but have an allowance. I would sit down with DC and work through what they want money for and look at how much money there is to give out and set an allowance for this. When we had to be more careful with money DH and I both had a spend allowance for bits and bobs, like coffees and magazines. You could either set that up or simply state that you are earning adults and so have different responsibilities and rights. An allowance means we don't have DC constantly wanting things, it also helps the, work out how much they want something.

Re the smoking I wouldn't highlight the reasons for taking it up. I might say "yes it is an expensive and silly habit" because it Is, "but I get to spend my money the way I choose. In the same way you spend the money we give you in the way you choose" DC having an allowance makes this easier to say.
Like klien I do say to my DC why you say x I feel y. So they understand that I am not a robot. I sometimes give them alternatives, so if you are angry about x just say that instead of telling me y. But if they are in a bad way for whatever reason I try to I gore as much of it as possible because I know it is about them and not me.
But my DC do not have ASD so these are only my suggestions, you are the best person to parent your DC, don't lose sight of that.

OP you are going through a terrible time and my heart goes out to you. I'm in a similar situation but no spectrum issues.

Have you ever told your son to stop sneering at you and treating you with no respect. You don't need to labour the point. Get a stock answer ready saying things like, 'dont take that tone with me'. Walk away once you have said it.

It's incredibly difficult but he cannot be permitted to speak to you like that.

I am going to get support for myself and you should too.

Anyone up who remembers this whole mess? Next "family therapy" session is tomorrow and I can't sleep. I'm dreading it. I keep telling myself things have been a bit better lately, and it can't possibly be the total clusterfuck that last time was because at least we're forewarned...but I don't relish the idea of sitting there being carved up and lied about again, and then chucked out on my ear with no advice. Which is exactly what happened last time. I know DS1 is nervous too, he was ominously quiet tonight. And I've got a nasty throat infection to boot

I think it is important to remember that a lot of his behavior is normal for a teenager. The example you gave earlier over the money... that is typical of a teenager.

I know your DS has additional problems, but I just didn’t want you to think it was all down to that. There have been many threads in here about nightmare teens that don’t have SEN. And a lot of posters who report being nightmare teens but are fine now.

Thanks Chicken I think our compass has gone a bit wonky on that score, since the cutting/suicide plans, I do have to remind myself sometimes that not everything he does is a danger sign, some of it is just being 16 and frustrated.

I just hope I don't fucking cry again if he says foul things about me in the session. It was so humiliating.

I remember your post. I'm sorry you're dreading it and hope you get some sleep soon. I have no advice but thought there was some very wise advice upthread about the therapists not judging you as parents, but trying to create a space where your DS feels he can say what he thinks he needs to.

Remember that shitty parents don't come to family therapy and don't engage. The very fact you are there and coming back even after how upsetting it was last time shows you're good parents and doing the right thing.

I just hope I don't fucking cry again if he says foul things about me in the session. It was so humiliating.

Try not to worry about that. They’ve heard it all before. And they shouldn’t be judging you because at least you’re there, trying to sort things out.

Greeny I have no experience but I am so sorry you're all going through this. Its shocking that you're not actually getting any advice from the experts about the best way to deal with this.

Oh goodness o I’m so sorry for everything you’re going through it sounds absolutely awful, no wonder you’re so upset. You have every right to feel how you do, it must be a living nightmare. But you have not failed in anyway(apart from not giving yourself a break). You must be terrified about the change in your son especially the suicidal intentions. You and your DH (and your other child) also need some help with this. Your ds sonunds angry and frightened coping with his poor mental health and is hitting out at the person he probably loves the most, it’s probably like the self harming, hurting you (which in turn is probably hurting him) is a bit like the self harming. You are probably the safest person for him to hurt in his mind because he knows you’ll always love him. I really really feel for you all at this terrible time. I hope you all get some much deserved help to get through it. On a side note the only people doing a shit job here is those who are supposed to be supporting you, as a family.