Treated like a shitty parent because our son is cutting/suicidal, just need to vent

[Greensleeves]

DS1 is 16 and has Asperger's. For the past few years, despite suffering bullying at school (which we were very proactive and supportive about) he's blossomed into a confident, responsible, articulate and lovely young man with great, close-knit friends and does very well at school.

The past couple of months everything has gone to hell and it's happened so fast we don't know what's hit us. He has a new girlfriend who has anorexia and has made several suicide attempts, which i'm sure is a factor. He lost his virginity to her a couple of weeks ago and is really obsessed with her CAMHS told us to take his phone away at night because he was messaging with her literally all night and was exhausted. He sees this as an infringement of his human rights and it's a nightly battle. He's cutting himself, he's having explosive rages (almost exclusively at me), saying irrational and often very cruel things, writing reams of abuse about himself all over his bedroom furniture. I think the effort of "doing so well" has been too much strain on him for too long, I think he's dealing with some unresolved grief about having ASD because we've always been relentlessly positive and "it's not a disability", maybe we haven't left room for him to have those feelings.
Sometimes he cries and clings to me like a toddler, then other times he screams and spits in my face that he's not my son. He says he hates himself. He's hurt me once (he didn't hit me, he grabbed my arm with both hands and squeezed really hard) and I feel intimidated by him when he's angry. I spent one night at A&E with him on suicide watch and we had an emergency CAMHS assessment in the morning. We've since had one CAMHS family therapy session and DS is on the waiting list for CBT as well. DH and I have been treated like criminals and don't feel like anyone wants to help or advise us on how to handle things, we just feel out in the cold.

The family therapy session was horrific. There were two therapists there, ds1 and me and dh. DS1 said awful, destructive things about us, some of which were just factually untrue. We said we were out of our depth, unsure of how we should be coping with his mood swings, especially the explosions of rage etc (because of my own abusive background I'm not great with people who are bigger than me screaming in my face), and asked for advice. They told us we were following an unhealthy script, by dh staying calm and logical and trying to get ds to talk about what is behind the rages/cutting, and me trying to hide the fact that I get upset. But ds1 said "we all know she's crying upstairs, she's not exactly quiet about it ffs" and said he would rather we were more real with him. But when I got upset in the session (because he said there was no trust between us and he would never come to me with a problem) he said I was weak and I was making him responsible for my feelings. The therapists asked us to "step out for ten minutes" so they could ask ds1 about the specifics of his suicidal thoughts (he has made concrete plans to [redacted*] ). They left us out there for 45 minutes, then brought ds1 out and just said they want to see him again in two weeks. DH said "sorry, but you've told us we're doing everything wrong but given us no guidance on how to do better" and the guy just sort of spread his hands and said "do nothing...we've had a great chat with ds1, maybe things will start to get better now". We don't even know if the appointment in 2 weeks is for all of us or just ds1.

Since the appointment ds1 has completely blanked me - not his dad - won't even say goodnight to me, pretends I don't exist. He's chatting about politics and Brexit and usual stuff, completely oblivious...dh was in tears after they'd gone to bed last night, it feels like we're falling apart.

The thing is, I feel angry with ds1, which makes me so ashamed. The only thing I really felt proud of was that I'd managed to break the cycle and bring up two basically healthy, secure kids without abusing them or destroying them. And it's been taken away. We failed. I've lost my confidence and feel like I can't even ask ds2 to do his homework because we're shit, failed parents now. And I'm angry with him for telling the CAMHS workers there's no connection and no trust between us, after all the hours I've spent cleaning his wounds, stroking his hair, holding his hand, listening to him pour out his feelings in the middle of the night. He said he would never consider coming to me with his problems, but two weeks ago he appeared in my doorway in the middle of the night [having cut himself] and said "please help me, mum". It's like I've slipped into a parallel universe.

I know this post is disgustingly self-indulgent and me me me. But RL is where everything is about ds1 and what we do next and how we support him and love him through this. I just wanted somewhere I could pour all the me me me stuff out.

• [Post edited by MNHQ to remove mention of suicide methods, in line with guidance from the Samaritans]

I can't give advice in your son, but I would advise that you keep a diary on your thoughts and feelings. Reading your post I could tell how cathartic it was for you to write it down and to consider your own feelings. Give yourself space and time to do this - you don't need to share it, but writing it down and having a track of what will eventually blur into an emotional whirlwind may really help.

I think the point several people have made about him being wholly committed to whatever he is feeling at one given moment is really useful - he does seem to contradict himself a lot and say things that are patently, objectively untrue, but he has always been a truthful, passionately fair-minded child and I think that's one of the things I've been struggling with the most. I will try to take what comes out of his mind less personally.

I do have a huge crop of personal hang-ups about failure and abandonment and impending disaster, especially as a parent. I had an horrific childhood and was told last year I had CPTSD, I was supposed to be having some therapy (EMDR) but then my dad got lymphoma, I ended up commuting between the SW and the Midlands every week and frankly i just chickened out. I should chase it up, but it never seems like the right time to open up the can of worms again.

Definitely think the sheer effort of maintaining his incredibly successful, high-achieving persona has taken a toll on his emotional and mental health - he's exhausted. He's on national committees for all sort of social and political things, which means travelling around at weekends (his obsessions are trains and politics) and has given speeches to conferences about having autism etc, he's always praised for being such a coper and such a fine example of a young man handling having ASD "right" iyswim, I think it's contributed to him burning out. He has a close-knit group of friends but they are quite a dramatic lot and he tends to get stuck as mediator a lot. I know he's very worried about GCSEs even though all his teachers have told him if he sat them tomorrow he'd be fine. He's doing half days at school at the moment and we've arranged for the pressure to be taken off him completely in terms of homework, tests etc, and he's exempted from PE and has quiet time in the library or learning support department.

I wish I could wave a magic wand and somebody would appear and hand me a piece of paper with a plan of action that would definitely work. It was easier when he was a toddler.

Wow, OP, I'm not surprised you're feeling so shit. You have a lot of stuff to deal with and my heart goes out to you.

One thing I've noticed about family therapy (over the years, I've worked with a few families that are having it) is that it seems to really shake up loads of stuff that is very challenging and hard to manage at first. That seems to settle down a bit after a few sessions and more clarity seems to develop.

It'll take a lot of strength, which I'm sure you have, given the challenges you've already had to contend with, so just hang on in there.

Like the previous poster said - one of the analogies someone I know who works in counselling gave me for the whole "raking stuff up before it settles" thing was that it's like trying to sort out a suitcase you can't close because everything's just been chucked in in a balled-up mess as you all couldn't deal with it at the time. You're going to get nowhere with it all until you take everything out, one thing at a time, fold it up properly, process it, and put it back in the suitcase so you can actually close it and move on/bugger off on holiday.

I think we expected family therapy to be tough and painful, we went in there saying "we're out of our depth, please help us". i know there are going to have to be tough conversations about all the issues we all bring to the table, and I want to do that work, because I love ds1 and would do anything to help him. DH feels the same. We just didn't expect to feel so lost, to feel cut out and ignored, to have our confidence taken away like this...we are both really struggling. We'll pick ourselves up and go to the next session with a positive attitude. I'm just not feeling it right now.

You need a specialist team who work with kids with ASD
Generic CAMHS are useless and it is a nice easy cop out to blame the parent. Send you on a parenting course and job done
It's not healthy for them to allow such a split so you have good parent, Dad, and bad parent/Scape goat, you. This isn't the way to deal with your lads issues
If he is like my ASD son their reasoning is skewed anyway and this is reinforcing that

Festering, that's exactly what we need, even ds1 himself says that his feelings about his ASD diagnosis and the sheer daily graft of maintaining himself socially and behaviourally at school is a huge strain. He hates himself and has written terrible, destructive things about himself all over his bed and wardrobe which are heartbreaking to see. The poor kid needs support that the very well-meaning SEN team at school and the generic CAMHS assessors we've seen don't seem able to provide. DH and I have read everything under the sun about ASD (we're pretty sure I have it as well) and we did Earlybird courses etc when he was younger, but when push comes to shove we're Mum and Dad, not professionals and by virtue of the relationship we have with him I don't think we can be the only ones to help him with this.

How do I get specialist counselling for him that caters for his ASD? Our impression is that we're bloody lucky to be offered anything at all :(

Will the CAMHS therapists be offended if we ask about specialist provision for his ASD? I know it sounds pathetic but I feel like we can't afford to upset them, they already think we're useless at best.

Some CAMHS workers have pretty basic qualifications, some have pretty advanced ones, the family therapist should be at the more advanced end of the spectrum. Ask for whatever you want, it doesn't mean you will be able to get it but no one will be offended by you asking. If they can't access specialist provision ask if they can be supported by an expert in ADHD either through clinical supervision or consultation, this can be a good way of getting the expertise you need but also the service.
They won't think you are useless.

Sorry ASD, rather late even here.

You’re getting some very good advice on here Greensleeves.

We had some similar type issues with our DC in the teenage years and it’s hard. When they’ve always been a “good kid” and then suddenly become this enraged, snarling thing that hates you and other parties come in and try to take over it’s so painful.

You’re not bad parents. You both sound like wonderful caring parents and I’m sure the health professionals don’t judge you harshly at all. They see these things all the time, and what is such a shock and so overwhelming to you is “normal” for them to deal with.

All I can say to you is stay strong and calm and support each other. We got through it and ten years later our DC is happy and well balanced with a lovely partner and a successful and satisfying career.

You can get through this. Good luck. 💐

I don't have any advice just to say I think you sound entirely the opposite of a crap parent. I think you sound amazing but just have some difficult times to work through.

Greensleeves don't beat yourself up. When we were in a similar situation with our son I kept thinking 'You always hurt the one you love'. He is testing you because he feels so bad about himself. Our DS put us through a lot. It was the loneliest time of our lives.
Your DS has pushed himself so hard to be the ambassador for autism, and he can't keep it up.
Please look into getting the help you were offered before.
Can I recommend 'Self harm the path to recovery' by Dr Kate Middleton and Sara Garvie. It helped us
I think feeling judged as parents is a common reaction to family therapy. In real life though people who have children with autism are the best parents because we have to work so hard at it.

Can you ask for a review meeting to discuss the approach
Family therapy doesn't seem appropriate because him focussing on you won't help anything. Ask is they have a specialist team for ASD because he needs a specific approach
I can say from experience that the wrong approach can be damaging

Hang on in there, OP. It will get better PM-ed

You mention about him acting as mediator in a group of tight knit over dramatic friends. My Dd1 felt similar and it was a huge cause of anxiety for her. She needed to understand she couldn’t take responsibility for everyone’s problems and it wasn’t her job to solve them. And that quite often you can angst and worry and offer all sorts of brilliant advice and help, and your friends say ‘yes yes’ and then completely ignore it and you just have to let it go.
As adults too I think we sometimes forget how intense friendships at this age are. I’m sure his friends are really important to him as a source of support and it may be impossible for you or your husband to say much at the moment given how he’s seeing you, but if you get the chance to talk to him about giving too much of himself, it might be a help?

He's on national committees for all sort of social and political things, which means travelling around at weekends (his obsessions are trains and politics) and has given speeches to conferences about having autism etc,
Can you cut this sort of thing down so he's got more down time? I really struggle when I've lots on (and that's lots by my standard which is basically nothing to anyone else!) & it throws my mental state totally off kilter.

from me OP - you are having an awful time.

My dd has been cutting and suicidal and is also in GCSE year. I have been very unhappy with the family therapy offered by CAHMS over the last couple of years. I went to see my GP and she referred me to adult services for counselling for me - she managed to get me accelerated up the waiting list because it potentially impacted the CAHMS referral for dd. It helped enormously and I have now been able to speak to CAHMS and request a different therapeutic approach - CBT/stress management for dd rather than family therapy and it is all now looking much better for all of us.

DO you have a helpful and supportive GP you could talk to to ask about therapy for you?

Since the appointment ds1 has completely blanked me - not his dad - won't even say goodnight to me, pretends I don't exist. He's chatting about politics and Brexit and usual stuff, completely oblivious...dh was in tears after they'd gone to bed last night, it feels like we're falling apart.

Try not to take it personally (I know, easier said than done!) That sounds like the autism. He can't cope with talking to you because he knows he's doing the wrong thing by you but he can't change direction and he can't cope with that. And he can only cope with DH by pretending nothing is going on. Let him have his relationship with DH and maybe you can use it to take some time out from the stress of trying to communicate with him.

You haven't failed at all. It's a pity the therapists couldn't say "you're actually doing a great job" but in front of DS that might have been a red rag.

I've lost my confidence and feel like I can't even ask ds2 to do his homework because we're shit, failed parents now.

I might not even bother to ask him to do his homework - not because you are shit parents but because if he's fallen into demand overload then any demand however trivial might tip him over into rage or self-harm or whatever other shenanigans. You're all under a huge strain so you could keep things extra-low demand until things settle down, why not?

The thing is, I feel angry with ds1, which makes me so ashamed

It's OK to feel angry with him. He's being bloody infuriating! He is probably communicating his frustration by making you angry, that's one of the things that emotionally inarticulate kids do. And no need to be ashamed. You're a darned good Mum.

It was easier when he was a toddler.

It's very similar but they are bigger and stronger and they know worse language.

You mention about him acting as mediator in a group of tight knit over dramatic friends. My Dd1 felt similar and it was a huge cause of anxiety for her.

My own DS does this too. He doesn't exactly get worried but he can get a bit obsessive about it.

She needed to understand she couldn’t take responsibility for everyone’s problems and it wasn’t her job to solve them.

I remind my DS to back off and he mostly ignores me.

the guy just sort of spread his hands and said "do nothing...we've had a great chat with ds1, maybe things will start to get better now".

As an outsider, I take that to mean "carry on - you parents are both doing very well". I've done shedloads of parenting sessions for my DS and in my experience if there was something they urgently needed you to change they would say so.

Just want to say thank you for all the amazing advice people have given me. Can't sleep (night owl!) so am going to read it all again now. It means so much that people take the time to give me so much support.

Hi,

My eldest son has AS and spent a long time in a CAMHS with mental health difficulties. He made friends with a group of (mainly) young women with whom he had a shared vulnerability. It was his first experience of being accepted as a peer or as even being popular.

We also had family therapy and it did not work well for us. My husband has AS and my youngest has other issues, it was very difficult for communication to take place effectively.

To be brief, my son is now in a residential placement for individuals recovering form mental illness. However, the placement providers are questioning how appropriate the placement is for someone with autism. We are also aware that the CAMHS team found it difficult to work with my son due to his autism and his antipathy towards autism.

When my son was about 16 (he is 19 now) he said to a social worker that he had no real relationship with me; that he did not think I cared about him and a lot of other things as well. When the social worker read this out to me, i broke down in tears.

The social worker told me that, yes, my son was a young man with some difficulties, but he was also an angry teenage boy who was feeling out of control in his life. He was lashing out at those he loved.

I am rambling a bit this morning, but I do know how it feels.

Wow fl0baDob, you really have been through hell thank you for sharing your experience with me. I really hope things get better for you and your boy.

I am worried that the family therapy is going to make things worse for us, especially as DS1 sees it as an opportunity to vent all the anger he has stored up between sessions and the therapists are happy to take everything he says as gospel. I tend to freeze or get upset when I'm being attacked and I can see the sessions descending into a coconut shy which doesn't benefit anyone.

I think we will ask at the next session whether there is anyone who specialises in ASD who can see us, but I am still nervous of upsetting or offending the therapists we're seeing, apparently they are the heads of CAMHS in our area and I think their opinion of us is already pretty low.

Therapists get clinical supervision, if they are upset or offended they can reflect in their own clinical space what it is about this perfectly reasonable request that has caused this emotional response in them.

I would be really honest with them about how the last session left you feeling and your concerns about the process. I wouldn't do this in front of your son, in fact I think I would phone them and ask to have a conversation with them before the next session. In family therapy everyone has an equal right to be heard but some things are best said by adults without DC hearing them.

But I just want to say again I really don't think they will be offended, in our team we used to use consultation when DC or their family had needs that fell out of our standard expertise. There was no alternative service provision so we couldnt just pass them on but we could find individual professionals which had that needed expertise who could advise us and give us feedback on our sessions.

We have been through similar with dd. She was diagnosed with ADHD at 13 and ASD at 14 - we found out afterwards she only agreed to the assessment to prove she didn’t have it. When the diagnosis was given, her already poor mental health deteriorated - self harm, suicidal thoughts, attempts to take her own life, verbal and physical abusive behaviour towards us. She has been an in-patient in an adolescent mental health unit 4 times, in total spending about a year there. It was a truly hideous time for us as family (she has 2 younger brothers). Age 15/16 was the worst.

Our camhs has a dedicated team for patients with learning disabilities/neurological difficulties and her care coordinatior has been amazing. We also worked with some great psychologists whilst she was in the unit. We have had 2 attempts at family therapy. The first one made me so angry - I felt that they were trying to shift the blame to us as parents and never told us what would work. The second was much better - because dd was in a better place and ready to rebuild relationships.

She is nearly 18 now, went back to school in September (had been out for 2 years) and is studying for A Levels. She understands herself better and has to an extent come to terms with her difficulties.

Her admissions were triggered by her having no intention of keeping herself safe and us being unable to keep her safe - police, ambulance and a and e were involved. I was distraught the first time but it did give us all some respite and she got a lot of help. The last time she was admitted she acknowledged herself that she couldn’t cope and needed to go back in. I suppose I am trying to say if you find yourself in that position don’t hesitate to call the emergency services and stress how bad it is and don’t be afraid if a stay in a unit is suggested.

Sending much sympathy xxx