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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think this might be a child protection issue here?

54 replies

originallyfromLA · 30/10/2018 11:06

NC for this as very outing.

I became friends with a lady (let's call her Sally) through another friend. I've been renting her car from her for the last couple of years, so I don't know her intimately but we have regular contact a couple of times a month via text.She is divorced, her exH lives quite a way away I think, but does have the children on a regular basis.

I knew Sally was a heavy drinker before I met her. Her reputation comes before her. We've met up twice for drinks. On each occasion she has ended up so drunk that she is virtually comatose and is unable to look after herself in any capacity, and she gets herself into this state within about 2 hours so the evenings were cut very short, which wasn't what we wanted so it was bizarre she let it happen. The first time we were out she 'lost' £100 from her purse and it wasn't put towards our evening because I paid the tab at the end (which was no problem). The second time she lost her iPhone and apparently she regularly loses them - about 4 per year - because she gets so drunk.

Things she has done whilst drunk:

Falling asleep in a fairly empty pub, leaning against the wall with her legs up on another chair an splayed apart so much that nothing was left to the imagination....all the more embarrassing because everyone in there was looking at her and laughing. When I tried to wake her and sit her properly, she would stay like that for about 20 seconds, before going back exactly as she was before. Eventually I gave up and arranged for a mutual friend to come and pick her up, thinking that no taxi would take her in that state.

Fallen asleep in pubs and snoring loudly.

Got lost in a smallish pub and not being able to find our table again, so drunkenly trying to join other peoples' tables.

Plus many, many more along the same lines.

Now here is where it starts straying into the unacceptable. She has two children aged 16 and 14. The eldest is a nightmare, smoking dope freely around the house on a daily basis. Also sells drugs and has repeatedly stolen expensive items from the house (MacBook Air, iPads, jewellery, etc.) to fund this drug habit. It always happens when Sally is drunk/hungover in bed.

The younger child is left to fend for herself a lot of the time, alone in the house. Feeding herself, washing her own uniform, cleaning the house all by herself. Now, none of this is wrong, but my point is that Sally isn't doing these things BECAUSE she's drunk. She does work but in a pub (therefore can drink) and a cocktail bar (ditto). She lost her proper job under a very black cloud and associated with alcohol.She is very open with her children about her drinking and merrily calls them up to tell them she's "totally trollied".

This is where I really start to worry. Sally now tells me that her DD is starting to ask for wine on a regular basis. She is given a small sherry glass and then swaps it for a much bigger glass when Sally isn't looking. She also wanders around the house with a bottle of wine in her hand. Being left to her devices only strengthens this habit in my opinion. There's no structure/meals/hep with homework - nothing like that.

The other thing that happens regularly is that she'll come home so drunk she can;t put herself to bed and the children have to do it. The last time she did that, she managed to open the front door but then fell straight through it, ending up face down on the floor, completely unable to wake up. These are things that she thinks are perfectly normal. The worrying thing is that she is shortly to get her driving licence back and, as things stand, she will never be sober while she's driving. She drinks every day, around 2/3/4 bottles of wine, or the equivalent. Her father was an alcoholic and she describes herself as a 'functioning alcoholic', but has no desire to change, thinks it's reasonably normal.

Sorry that's so long! I was trying not to drip feed. My basic question is: from the perspective of strangers, does this look like a child protection issue? Or just a home life that is chaotic?

OP posts:
hibbledibble · 30/10/2018 11:11

Absolutely it is a safeguarding concern.

You can call the nspcc to report these.

RedneckStumpy · 30/10/2018 11:11

Given the age that the kids are its a chaotic family life. The kids are set on the path that they are on, doubt intervention will help. Another couple of years and they will have probably left home, assuming sally hasn’t drink herself to death by then.

AnonaMouse1 · 30/10/2018 11:14

How has she got the kids through childhood without involvement from SS so far?

Willthisdoo · 30/10/2018 11:17

Wow, Redneck, really? Intervention isn’t going to help due to their ages? They are still young, and the 14 year old especially couldn’t in any way be considered an adult. It’s absolutely not too late to give these kids a better chance.

OP, please contact NSPCC ASAP, for all their sakes. This is horrific.

FissionChips · 30/10/2018 11:18

I doubt much will be done about it, the kids are old enough to cook and clean.

Rabbitjam · 30/10/2018 11:20

I dealt with similar as a child. It was awful. My mother used to dance on tables topless at house parties, she would frequently need putting to bed, but she'd have pissed herself so my sister and I had to strip her off too. I often had to arrange with another school friend which of us could get away with missing assembly to take my much younger brother to primary school, (her mother also had issues) I had to cook most evenings, clean the house, care for my brother. I lived in a very nice area where no one wanted to think that sort of thing existed, also went to a very nice school who also turned a blind eye. I was fed bullshit by her and my stepdad (there was other stuff going on at home) about care so I never told anyone at the time.
Please do report her! I failed my a levels, had sex with inappropriate people just to feel "loved", and only got out of the situation because my now husband told 18 year old me to leave the house with him and never go back. I have spent years trying to deal with the repurcussions and poor mental health it left me with. You could make a real difference.

moredoll · 30/10/2018 11:21

Call the NSPCC.

Eliza9917 · 30/10/2018 11:21

How do you know all that in such detail if you don't know her intimately?

FissionChips · 30/10/2018 11:22

What do peole think SS will actually do?
Ss are overstretched, they have cases of children being passed around pedophiles, beaten etc and they can’t/don’t step in enough.

binkyblinky · 30/10/2018 11:23

Call your local MASH (multi agency safeguarding hub) through the council. They will help you

Rabbitjam · 30/10/2018 11:23

Fissionchips they can refer to other agencies such as young carers, Barnados life skills, and at least they'd be on the radar.

Rabbitjam · 30/10/2018 11:28

Also being old enough to cook and clean... I was old enough to cook and clean at age 12, does that mean I should have been left as the main carer of my 4 year old brother because my mother was incapicated? Children are vulnerable whatever the age!

catsofa · 30/10/2018 11:28

Is it possible to tell the DVLA so she doesn't get her license back? And yes, definitely tell social services, they will be interested.

OhTheRoses · 30/10/2018 11:29

And SS will do what exactly? Put the DC in worse situations and disrupt their schooling. If they end up in a form of care the people ththey will mix with will likely have far worse behaviours.

Have you thought about helping to support the girls and your friend rather than report the family?

Rabbitjam · 30/10/2018 11:37

Ohtheroses I highly doubt they'd remove the children, they'd instead try to sort the situation at home out first with the help of TAF. Care is a last resort. So many people don't ask SS for help when they should because of misguided opinions on them. I work for a family support service and see first hand what SS does. Comments like yours can be pretty damaging.

Aridane · 30/10/2018 11:47

Cannot believe some of the above comments

MrsStrowman · 30/10/2018 11:50

Social care won't remove the children at their ages, but will give them access to support for themselves, make sure the school are aware so they can be kept an eye on. I work a lot in child protection, absolutely report this, yes funding is tight I'm not sure there's ever been a time when it wasn't, it doesn't mean you ignore risk.

TheSpooktacular · 30/10/2018 11:52

It’s not up to anyone to decide what SS
will or won’t do. Report, the children are being neglected.

alligatorsmile · 30/10/2018 11:54

Oh those poor kids, how heartbreaking. maybe getting an outside agency involved will help her to realise that this is not normal and not right.

OhTheRoses · 30/10/2018 11:56

Rabbitjam ehen my dd had some minor mh issues an A&E dept referred us to the MASH, without my permission (hospital did apologise - rogue nurse. This resulted in a record that should not be there but cannot be redacted. Also a call from a social worker who asked if we needed support but could not define support. Actually his English was so poor I had to ask him to repeat everything three times. When I asked him to stop using my first name when he introduced himself as Mr A he started calling me by my surname.

Case closed, director of children's services and his manager apologised.

Please don't infer my comments are unhelpful when i have personally experiences the incompetence of social services. DD was v loved and cared for, has recovered because we paid for her mh care - care not availabke through CAMHS where ime social workers chat nonsense rather than facilitate diagnosis.

If that's the level of care and courtesy for a low level case that shoukd never have gone to them - God help anyone who actually is vulnerable.

Servalan · 30/10/2018 12:04

Do you know what school the DCs go to? In your position, I think I would make a call to the safeguarding lead at the school at the very least. It is vital that there is some support for the kids as the repercussions of what is happening at home will be rippling out into all areas of their life.

I think it's important you do something. Try not to think of it as telling on your friend or getting anyone in trouble - this family desperately need support.

MeanQueenHalloween · 30/10/2018 12:06

Please report - give the kids and their mum a chance of getting some help.

Yes, some social workers are incompetent, many more are overstretched, but a lot of them do very good, important work.

OhTheRoses Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Just one point though - no one has to ask anyone's permission to make a safeguarding referral. It would defeat the object in many cases.

RomanyRoots · 30/10/2018 12:13

It's not how I would choose to parent at all, but the kids aren't in any danger.
It's a shame for the kids if they don't have time to study for doing chores, and the 16 year old needs support and encouragement to get off the drugs.
However, I'm not sure ss can do anything if they aren't in danger.

Rabbitjam · 30/10/2018 12:13

Ohtheroses, I'm sorry but I'm not sure I understand. Because you had a phonecall from SS and you couldn't understand the workers accent you think they're all incompetent? Also referrals never need parents permission. And what is wrong with having a record? surely it's a good thing you were contacted, imagine if a child didn't have as loving and pragmatic parents as you.

I'm sorry your daughter had mh issues and well done for sorting out help for her, I understand how stretched cahms is.

Servalan · 30/10/2018 12:18

There are all sorts of danger. Physical danger isn't the only type. I would say that these children are in emotional danger.

From a safeguarding point of view, I would say that this at the very least falls into both emotional abuse and neglect categories, whether intentional or not.

This is not to demonise "Sally". Alcoholism is an illness and she is currently obviously in extreme denial. Enabling her behaviour by looking the other way isn't doing her any favours either.

School and social services can make up their minds whether or not action is required, but they can't make any such decision if they don't have a scooby that all of this is happening!

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