Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

He’s the match; we’re the ammo. Only we can stop ourselves - Trump thread 86

977 replies

TheClaws · 30/10/2018 03:24

This is one of the most apt political cartoon I’ve seen.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3393501-Couldnt-think-of-a-pithy-quote-so-have-this-instead-Trump-85

He’s the match; we’re the ammo. Only we can stop ourselves - Trump thread 86
OP posts:
Thread gallery
41
TheClaws · 30/10/2018 08:59

More from NK, this time about Otto Warmbier. They don’t like that some doctors are questioning the circumstances around his death. They say his physical and mental condition was near perfect when he left NK, as the country had looked after him well, “even though he was a criminal”. Hmm No wonder Trump likes them so much.

U.S. Distortion of Facts Censured

Pyongyang, October 27 (KCNA) -- The director of the Pyongyang Friendship Hospital gave the following answer to a question put by KCNA on Saturday as regards allegations coming out recently within the U.S., which distort the truth as to the cause of death of an American student Warmbier:

American student Warmbier died after his return to the U.S. following the release on sick bail in June 2017. He was undergoing the reform through labor which he had been sentenced to on a charge of anti-DPRK hostile act committed in January 2016.

However, several American doctors reportedly involved in the health check-up and treatment of Warmbier submitted “medical observation” to a federal district court in Washington D.C. on October 10 to the effect that "he had died of torture", alleging that "they had concluded his teeth were dislocated and his gum bone damaged by physical force from outside".

Worse still, Haley, U.S. permanent representative to the UN, reportedly made such reckless remarks as "in north Korea, where Warmbier was tortured to death, and that was evil".

As the director of the hospital directly involved in medical treatment of Warmbier, I cannot repress my indignation over the American total distortion of the truth regarding his death.

As Warmbier had admitted by himself at a press conference, we provided medical care to him with sincerity from humanitarian viewpoint until his return to the U.S., though he was a criminal who had committed a hostile act against the DPRK.

The American doctors who came to the DPRK to help Warmbier's repatriation acknowledged that his health indicators were all normal and submitted a letter of assurance to our hospital that they shared the diagnostic result of the doctors of our hospital. That document is still in our hands.

According to an article carried in the American newspaper "USA Today" on June 21, 2017, a neurosurgeon in the University of Cincinnati admitted that medical examination of Warmbier had not found any trace of physical abuse like bone fracture or internal injury and he came home in a well-nourished condition.

And also according to the American NBC news on September 27, 2017, a medical examiner from Ohio of the U.S. testified in his report that they combed Warmbier's body to find any trace of torture, but failed to do so and forensic dentists couldn't find any evidence of trauma to Warmbier's teeth.

Now the question is: what is the ulterior motive of those American doctors trying to make a different story at this point in time with regard to the cause of Warmbier's death.

Medical assessment of doctors should be objective and accurate, and it should not be influenced by any selfish purpose or political interest.

Anyone, who values truth in sincerity, should instead ask for an investigation into the cause of Warmbier's sudden death soon after his arrival in the U.S., whose health indicators were all normal at the time of his release.

The DPRK treats as ever those who are undergoing reform in conformity with the relevant international laws and international standard. -0-

OP posts:
ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 09:08

Kaitlan Collins
@kaitlancollins
Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump will travel with the president to Pittsburgh tomorrow, per person familiar.

@markwest1963
He is daring the people of Pittsburgh to deny him a warm welcome, knowing, knowing damned well, that he is interfering.
He does not care.
He wants the political optics and down deep relishes daring the Jewish community of Pittsburgh to disrespect him.
He is diabolical

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 09:28

FineWhateverItsRICOHat
@Popehat
A few very preliminary thoughts on the new RICO complaint against Trump.
/1
Here's the complaint in Doe v. Trump Corp.: (link: www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.503637/gov.uscourts.nysd.503637.1.0.pdf courtlistener.com/recap/gov.usco…
/2 The factual section describing how Trump & Co. promoted a MLM scam and reaped benefits is detailed, specific, and quite devastating.
/3 The complaint asserts civil RICO, conspiracy to do the RICO, and then a bunch of state consumer laws from several states, plus a state fraud claim. The RICO is only one basis for federal court jurisdiction -- there's also diversity jurisdiction (folks from different states).
/4 I'm an admitted RICO skeptic -- a ricanthrope, if you will. I think the statute is far overused, hellishly complicated, difficult to plead right, and mostly used for emphasis.
Lawsplainer: IT'S NOT RICO, DAMMIT
/5 Is this RICO? I think it's too early to say. It's a very competently executed complaint, unlike 95% of RICO claims. Great attention has been given to meeting the convoluted elements.
/6 Though I remain skeptical for boring and hyper-technical reasons, these attorneys came prepared to fight, and it won't be an easy or quick fight for Trump & Co. /end
mobile.twitter.com/Popehat/status/1056954993968766978

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 09:31

'Texas Congressman Won’t Say Why He Labeled Opponent ‘Indo-American Carpetbagger’
Republican Pete Olson also led supporters in a chant of “CNN sucks” at a recent event.'
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/pete-olson-indo-american-carpetbagger-cnn-sucks_us_5bd761dfe4b07427610a2957#click=t.co/w1hbNfFOEc" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/pete-olson-indo-american-carpetbagger-cnn-sucks_us_5bd761dfe4b07427610a2957#click=t.co/w1hbNfFOEc

OhYouBadBadKitten · 30/10/2018 11:30

Plopping self on thread.

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 12:26

This headline is misleading. The Stinker thinks he can do this and may well try. I do not believe he was lying when he said he had given it thought and sought some legal advice on it. And, Swan knew this, from sources, which is why he raised the issue. Interesting that he chose this moment, in midst of the 'caravan' hysteria, a week from midterms. Just as it was interesting NYT raised a 13 year old story about Beto O'Rourke yesterday. Stinky was, however, lying in saying US is unique in applying the jus soli rule to citizenship, more than 30 countries do. He was not challenged on this. Axos should have done better and had those facts to hand.

'Exclusive: Trump to terminate birthright citizenship'
www.axios.com/trump-birthright-citizenship-executive-order-0cf4285a-16c6-48f2-a933-bd71fd72ea82.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twsocialshare&utm_campaign=organic

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 12:31

Better late .....
They should have been prepared to do it when they raised it live. Shoddy, and these journalists know better, because they know the playbook.
Jonathan Swan
@jonathanvswan
Important point. And we’ve updated the story now to fact-check that Trump quote about the US being the “only” country: (link: www.axios.com/trump-birthright-citizenship-executive-order-0cf4285a-16c6-48f2-a933-bd71fd72ea82.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twsocialshare&utm_campaign=organic) axios.com/trump-birthrig…
Quote Tweet
Matthew Yglesias
@mattyglesias
I think when the President makes a factual misstatement the centerpiece of his argument it’s a bad idea to just uncritically quote him as if what he were saying was true. (link: twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1057215661410263040) twitter.com/bpolitics/stat…
Show this thread

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 12:36

I like Swan and follow his reporting, but his immediate defensiveness is revealing. At least he had the grace to apologise to Stein.
Sam Stein
@samstein
Guys. Trump can’t terminate amendments via executive order. To respond as if he’s ending birthright citizenship because he told an outlet he is ending birthright citizenship is to allow him to be our assignment editor. It’s an obvious stunt
@jonathanvswan
Replying to
@samstein
It’s actually not, Sam. Read the story. I asked him a question based on several weeks of reporting. The legal context is in the story. Your tweet — suggesting he teed this up — suggests you think I’m lying about the origin of the piece

Jonathan Swan
@jonathanvswan
This response was way over the top, and a misreading of Sam’s tweet. Want to apologize for being a jackass to a good guy.

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 12:41

I am slow.of brain, today. I had forgotten this new 'show' was about to launch. So the timing of this was totally cynical promotion. They have had it in their back pocket for a month.
Jonathan Swan
@jonathanvswan
Excited to share with you the first snippet from our interview with President Trump yesterday, ahead of the launch of Axios’ HBO show this Sunday evening. 1/2

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 12:47

Julie Davis
Julie Davis
@juliehdavis
Trump campaigned on this & now claims the White House counsel has told him he can do it. What better fight to revive days before midterm congressional elections than whether the children of undocumented immigrants should get citizenship?
@axios
Trump declares he can end birthright citizenship with an executive order: "It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't."
@alliegoldenpen
Replying to @juliehdavis, and @maggieNYT
Right. But it's critical that (responsible) media balance its appetites for politics-as-theater and calibrate how much and what they cover accordingly. Sometimes coverage seems like reporters in the thick of DC haven't cottoned on to the fact we're living in dangerous times. [Hear, hear]

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 12:52

Thread:
Steve Kantrowitz
@skantrow
1/ On birthright citizenship, read the debate in the U.S. Senate, Jan. 30, 1866. The framers of the Civil Rights Actthe immediate precursor to the 14th Amendment, and the first place national citizenship was codifiedknew exactly what they were doing.
mobile.twitter.com/skantrow/status/1057229372631998464

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 13:31

Haley, arse cheeks on both sides of that trumpista fence. As hollow as the rest of them.
💀andrew👻kaczynski🎃
@KFILE
At the time, in June 2016, Nikki Haley said Trump’s rhetoric could lead to political violence, citing the 2015 white supremacist Charleston church shooting.

"I know what that rhetoric can do," Haley said. "I saw it happen."

(link: www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/06/03/s-c-gov-nikki-haley-warns-that-trumps-rhetoric-could-lead-to-violent-tragedy/?utm_term=.057f3f8b91b7. washingtonpost.com/news/post-poli…

@nikkihaley
I have struggled w/ what happened in Pitts bc it’s so similar to what happened in Chas. The country was very racially divided @ the time. We didn’t once blame Pres. Obama. We focused solely on the lives lost & their families. Have some respect for these families & stop the blame.

TheNorthWestPawsage · 30/10/2018 13:35

Hey, kids, you know who's not coming up with artisanal, handcrafted reasons for why they're not going to vote? The fucking fascists, that's who.
twitter.com/scalzi/status/1057261562044563456?s=21

12 Young People on Why They Probably Won’t Vote
nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/10/12-young-people-on-why-they-probably-wont-vote.html

JuliaJaynes9 · 30/10/2018 13:36

Sorry to bang on about George lakoff but I have found his explanations of strict father morality and how this connects to trump very useful, here's a link to a conversation on that subject
www.marketplace.org/2017/04/18/economy/make-me-smart-kai-and-molly/transcript-blog-trump-george-lakoff

TheNorthWestPawsage · 30/10/2018 13:38

New: Pittsburgh Mayor, Pittsburgh County Exec, Senate Majority Leader McConnell, House Speaker Ryan, Senate Minority Schumer, and House Minority Leader Pelosi all tell CNN they have declined WH invite to join Pres Trump in Pittsburgh today.
twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1057256220107685890?s=21

JuliaJaynes9 · 30/10/2018 13:38

Lakoff: Boy, did he know what he was doing. He knew perfectly well what he was doing. First of all, there are in this country about 35 percent of Americans who have what I call a strict father morality. That is, they understand that they, in their households or whatever, they believe that father knows best, that their father is the authority, that what he says is right. That if children don't obey him, they have to be given tough love and punished until they do, and that this gives rise to a view that you have to be disciplined. That is not to do what feels good.

You've heard of feel-good liberalism? That means they don't have a strict-enough father. The main thing is that this is a natural thing that this is how the world should be how it is. And if you look at history, you will see that the strict fathers win. And you can take a look at who wins, and they win because they're right. That morality and authority go together, that the strict father knows right from wrong. So that if you want to see who's better than who, you look at who beat who. And so you have religion won out, you have God above man and you have, we have conquered nature, you have man above nature. We can take anything we want for our use. You have the strong above the weak. We need a strong army, and so on. You have the rich above the poor, who deserve it, because they're disciplined. The employers above employees, because they're richer. The adults above children in 21 states. Teachers and coaches can beat children with sticks if they don't just obey them and if they ever talk back. You have Western culture above non-Western culture. We won out. You have America above other countries, men above women, whites above non-whites, Christians above non-Christians, straights above gays. That hierarchy follows from one idea, not a bunch of different ideas. It's strict father morality as applied to all aspects of life.

That is what Trump not only believes, he hacks and he assumes is correct. And he knows that about 35 percent of the country — the 35 percent who still support him — that, you know, who also believe this, even if they're poor. And it doesn't matter, this just a matter of material resources. The main thing is that if that is your worldview and that's your morality, that defines who you are as a person. It's self-definition, and people don't vote against their self-definition. Not only that, it doesn't matter if Trump lies to them, and they know he's lying, because there's a higher truth, which is strict father morality itself, which has consequences and that they are truer than any lies. And that if you deny that, if you accept the lies as more important, you're denying your self-identity. That is why there are alternative facts.

lionheart · 30/10/2018 13:57

The press.

www.cbc.ca/news/politics/marty-baron-neil-macdonald-1.3435715

lionheart · 30/10/2018 13:58

The dotard.

secondnexus.com/news/trump-executive-order-birthright-citizenship/

lionheart · 30/10/2018 14:03

Trying to kill two birds with one stone, I guess.

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/30/pointing-trumps-rhetoric-attorneys-kansas-militiaman-convicted-mosque-bomb-plot-ask-more-lenient-sentence/?utm_term=.861a20e528b9

'Attorneys representing a Kansas man convicted of a 2016 plot to massacre Somali Muslim refugees by bombing a mosque and apartment complex in Garden City, Kan., have asked a federal judge to consider a more lenient sentence, arguing that President Trump’s inflammatory rhetoric should be taken into account as the “backdrop” for the case.'

AcrossthePond55 · 30/10/2018 14:17

Thanks for the new thread.

One week to go. DH has put himself on a news blackout until after the midterms. I'm sort of in one as my cousin is non political and doesn't watch the news, although I have managed to turn her against Scrotus. Tomorrow is a 450 mile drive home. Me and NPR to catch up. Thank you all so much for keeping me informed whilst I've been away from home.

I find my anxiety has skyrocketed. I never truly realized how much hope I have invested in the outcome. I apologize for the analogy but it's as if I am waiting for a biopsy report and the results will mean life or death.

Sending troops to the border scares me. Unfortunately there are any number of right wing nut jobs in our military who are probably thrilled at the idea of becoming 'heroes for Scrotus' by stopping the caravan.

Again thanks for the new thread and the information lifeline

cozietoesie · 30/10/2018 15:00

A Beast piece.

final push to lock down the senate

PerkingFaintly · 30/10/2018 16:41

Nikki Haley measuring up to be the new Kellyanne Conway or something? That was classic KAC-style false equivalence.

Trump isn't being blamed for enabling hate crimes merely because he happens to be president at the time of a hate crime.

He's being blamed for enabling hate crimes because in his role of president he spews a message of hatred and division, telling lies and stereotyping human beings into classes in order to "other" and demonise them, and showing little regard for the rule of law when it comes to those classes. Fertilising the ground in which hate crimes thrive.

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 16:54

Because they're happy:
Rafael Shimunov 🔥
@rafaelshimunov
Over at Fox News, here is a cut of all the laughter the hosts had with side conversations during a segment about the Synagogue killings and pipe bombs. Republicans are really good at messaging to their base.
mobile.twitter.com/rafaelshimunov/status/1057080640322134018/video/1

www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/music/pharrell-williams-sends-trump-cease-desist-playing-happy-rally-n926076

ohmymimi · 30/10/2018 16:59

'Lord Barker of Battle, the chair of the aluminium giant EN+ which is majority-owned by Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, did not wish to appear in open session before MPs because he hopes to persuade Washington to lift the sanctions, letters show.'
www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/30/tory-peer-declines-to-give-public-evidence-to-mps-over-russian-firm