To wonder why anyone would buy a puppy through gumtree or the like?

[SummerGems]

I’m not talking so much about why people would buy a puppy from a backyard breeder as that’s a discussion in its own right, but why anyone would log on to their local gumtree, look up the pets for sale adverts, and call the owner and arrange to go and collect a living breathing animal without having first met the “breeder” the dogs or had anything to do with them before jumping in the car and coming home with said puppy, usually at vast expense.

Looking at my local gumtree there are puppies for sale for as much as £2000, and even one for £1700 which is described at being available at “the bargain price of.....” . A bargain? For a living animal? .

Why?

On some level I can sort of see how someone might know someone locally with puppies and end up taking one. I wouldn’t but I can see how it happens. But answering an advert on a buying/selling website and collecting an animal from a complete stranger after handing over often upwards of a grand for what might even be a mongrel masquerading as a genuine breed (i.e. cockerpoo/cavachon/labradoodle and I even saw one described as a pomchi the other day, just why would anyone do that?

I agree there’s a lot of stupidity and naivety out there.

However I am cynical about the altruistic intent of breeders proclaimed here and I also believe rescue centres could do with relaxing their criteria a tad.

Hamster in a bucket shock angry

There was a guinea-pig rescue that took some piggies in that were kept in a bucket. The owner got overwhelmed (males can breed at 4 weeks and aren;t that fussy , they;ll mate with their own mum)

He put the boars in to seperate - adult and baby boars- from the sows .

Oh no 70.
I think smaller pets (especially bunnies) often get an even rawer deal than cats and dogs. Bought often for kids who have neither the inclination or the knowledge to care for them. Stuck in tiny hutches and no room to bounce and leap like bunnies should.

@RIPWalter
Aww poor cocker spaniel.
It's a shame really. I don't agree with the whole breed to sale. I think sometimes they say let your pet have one litter and then neuter. Which sometimes helps or calms them down. How else will you be able to sale the babies. But I think it should be monitored.

Because people are stupid and regard dogs as toys.

I breed labradors. I have Dad -my friend has Mum -all done with hip and eye scores and KC. For my last litter, we only had one litter and owners were all vetted and we actually knew personally all 11 people who had a puppy (all friends / work colleagues). Contracts were drawn up -puppy comes back to us if a problem. Owners all saw mum and dad dogs together. Mum and Dad dogs only had 1 litter. She was an awesome Mum and he was a good Dad -although puppies could have been sold for stupid sums -we had an offer for £3K for one from another breeder - we said no. As these were family dogs bred as both our dogs have amazing temperaments. We didn't make any money as by the time we had looked after mum and essentially given them away and had a puppy each and then my friend's daughters all had one each and then the others were homed to friends and family -we didn't sell to anyone we didn't know.

I won’t be breeding. Having a season has calmed my girl down but that’s also part of her maturing. I don’t know nearly enough to be a breeder. Liver shunt testing anyone?
There is no real monitoring or checks. People think KC reg or licenced means it’s all above board. It doesn’t. Not on its own.

No, Wolfiefan. You're one of the only people on this forum who has their head screwed on when it comes to dogs.

My dog we neutered at exactly 6 months (earliest recommended by our vet), he was never going to be bred from, so why wait longer and take the risk.

I can understand the reservations with bitches as it is a more serious op. But can't understand why people don't get their dogs done as soon as they can.

I’m afraid I have a nasty suspicious mind when it comes to breeding and dogs. I have always rescued cats in the past from proper rescues. I wouldn’t buy a dog from anyone I didn’t know and trust. It’s too big a risk. Not just because I could end up with a sick or aggressive dog but for the poor parents too. I would love another one. But I won’t breed. I really don’t know nearly enough to make a good job of it. And I will wait. I’m really hoping that one particular breeder may have a pup available for me at some point next year. But they may not. I’ll wait.
Oh and I still feel guilty about buying a pedigree. Volunteer weekly at a local shelter. My dog also regularly wins food in shows. We donate that to the shelter too.
I’m trying to make a difference. But in a world of one click and buy the pup you like the look of? It feels a bit hopeless sometimes.

RIP x post. In my case because she’s a giant breed. You shouldn’t spay or neuter such a big dog until they’re grown.

We've always had rescues and hopefully alway will.

However I think finding a pup that isn't from a rescue is a quagmire. I don't really rate 'KC' registered considering the state they got a lot of breeds in.

Finding a mutt is virtually impossible to do in a good way without using a rescue and some people worry about rescue dogs and/or want a specific breed.

I remember accompanying a friend to see lab puppies at a place they thought was a reputable breeder (this was in the States) it was a horrendous place and we reported it to anyone that would listen.

Because we didn't know any better.
We tried rescue and they wouldn't rehome due to children's age at the time. We found one that did eventually but didn't have pups of the breed we wanted for the 18 months we looked.

Eventually we were told of some on Gumtree. We went and saw both parents. Picked which one, paid deposit. Got proof of health check etc when collected weeks later.

Said pup is now five and lay in the bed at the side of me , neutered , chipped, trained, shiny coat , only bet treatment has been jabs and neutering .

I'm guessing we were lucky tbh

Wolfiefan- what exactly is animal welfare? Is it the breeder that has 10 show dogs and keeps them in kennels? Has a waiting list for puppies and is giving any potential owner a thorough once over? Only sell through KC Or breed clubs. Or is it the breeder with 2 dogs in a tiny house living as pets with their owners? And quite happily advertises the puppies on the internet as well as with kc and breed clubs? They still interview potential owners on lifestyle ...
Both breed because they love the dogs both do health testing both breed for type and temperament.

I did, mostly because I didn't know any better!
We went to view our dog and it was a normal family home, we met our pups parents and her brother and the whole set up was totally genuine. The family were keeping the brother but felt they couldn't really manage 4 dogs. Lucky us, as it meant we got our beloved dog!
There was nothing about it all that suggested puppy farm, the day we picked our dog up, the Dad had to sit out in the garden because he was so upset, we also kept in touch and exchanged photos for quite sometime.
With hindsight I think we were just lucky, although totally naive.

Although I do have to say my Gumtree pup came from a nicer home than the registered breeder I know that live in kennels at the bottom of the garden and are never allowed in the house unless people are coming to view .

It's really not good the way people can buy an animal on a whim so easily. My first husband decided he wanted a dog, didn't tell me, found one on pets4homes and next thing I knew there was an out of control dog causing chaos in our small flat. He got bored with it within a few days so I ended up looking after it. When I was away he didn't walk it or clean up after it, there were so many complaints the building management threatened to take us to court. The poor dog had to be rehomed. I'm glad, I know she's being cared for properly now, so wrong that the poor animal had such a miserable time for the first year of her life

I think it’s somewhat disingenuous to say that breeders don’t make money, however I also think that the rescues need to do something, because I am actualy of the belief that many rescues do hoard dogs as more dogs make for more donations.

the reality is that it’s a mix - as much as there are owners who aren’t suitable to rescue, so there are rescue dogs which aren’t suitable for rehoming, and in those instances I do think that sometimes the kindest thing is to pts. E.g. those rescues who state that they “never put a healthy dog down,” let’s be honest, if a dog is so traumatised that it can never be rehomed then it’s not a healthy dog, and is definitely not going to benefit from spending the rest of its life in kennels. Put the poor thing out of its misery in that case.

My personal view is that it should be made illegal to profit from the sale of live animals. If you did that you’d shut down the puppy farm trade over night. There is literally no reason why this shouldn’t be supported by anyone who is a genuine animal lover. There is no reason what so ever why anyone should need to make money from live animals. Those who are in it for the love of the breed would still be there, surely? And anyone else would have nothing to gain by breeding.

A family member of mine answered an ad from gumtree and went to see a small breed dog available at that very moment. Turns out there were nine puppies, there’s no way they were all from the same bitch, if the one with them was even the mother of any of them, and the “breeders” wanted cash - £1000. and they left with a puppy. I was horrified but had no knowledge of this until several days later when my mum pointed it out. They haven’t had any problems with their dog, but they so easily could have done.

Equally though a work colleague of my mum’s bought a dog from a so-called reputable breeder, waited months for her puppy, and it turned out the puppy came from a puppy farm and had parvo when it arrived. The RSPCA and police became involved, and after thousands and thousands in vet bills the pup did pull through,, but it’s a good indication that so called reputable breeders aren’t a sure thing either. But just because there are dodgy KC breeders out there doesn’t mean that buying a dog from the internet is a lesser risk.

My personal view is that there is absolutely no reason why anyone should end up with unwanted litters of animals of any description. If you don’t want the responsibility of baby animals then get the bloody adult ones neutered or keep them separated if they’re not of a breed which can be neutered e.g. rats/gerbils and so on.

I would only ever rescue cats, and the lack of decent breeders who aren’t just in it to chern out cute baby animals means I wouldn’t be ever likely to get a puppy.

Depends on the breed, we knew what we wanted and we preferred a farm reared working dog so a found a sheep farmer with excess puppies through the wonder of the internet. He certainly wasn't in it for the money, I saw the international sheepdog accreditation and the rosettes he had won! no way would I spend designer dog prices without research. It's a case of buyer beware, but do remember that it's those so called responsible kennel club registered breeders that have cause so many health defects in dogs through breed standards.

@Ylvamoon my dog did not come from a breeder who had anything like that number of dogs. They are house dogs. Yes they show. But their dogs are pets. They adore them and do their best for them.
The home breeder rarely has enough knowledge to choose an appropriate sire and bitch. I would run a mile from someone breeding their pets. They are unlikely to have the knowledge and expertise needed.

Ithink sometimes they say let your pet have one litter and then neuter. Which sometimes helps or calms them down

Bollocks.

Having now got a dog, I can completely understand the strength of emotion. I knew I’d be a responsible owner but didn’t know I’d love him as much as a do. He is an absolute pleasure.

@Sofialemon improvement of the breed (google purine and Dalmatians, one very brave breeder outcrossed to eliminate a serious issue. A good breeder will match sire and dam to cancel out issues/improve certain aspects)

Many breeders will breed because they want to retain a pup for showing/working. Line breeding is sometimes used to this end.

We first went to a local dog rescue about 17 years ago to look at taking in a dog to live with us. We had a disabled toddler (at the time) so a good natured dog would be essential although the toddler would not be able to chase the dog. We took in a beautiful 1-2 year old mixed breed dog but he had an obsession with chasing cars, so was not suitable with our family as he could not be walked alongside a wheelchair. They persuaded us to look at a puppy that they had in the rescue and told us that she was good with children. She certainly was not! We put up with her getting aggressive (more than usual puppy behaviour) towards myself and DH and put in place training strategies. The day she went to attack our DS was the day she went back to the rescue. We explained that she was aggressive and tried to attack our DS, so she should not be homed with small children.
There was no offer of "deposits" paid for the dogs or any other pleasantries from the rescue. Shortly afterwards the puppy was advertised again and no warning about not being suitable to homing with children.

I'm typing this with my two beautiful rescue dogs sitting in their beds wagging. The ex-street dog is an old man now, and has been a joy from the start. The other is my 'special needs' dog - an ex-breeding bitch from a puppy farm. We got her when she was seized (at about 4 years old, which is 4 years of absolute hell for her) and I can't describe the condition she was in.

After 3 months in rescue before we adopted her, she still had scabs all over her ears and hid at the back of her run. She messed herself in fear when we collected her and collapsed in terror consistently for weeks. She hid in our hedge for 2 days before she'd come in the house willingly. She messed where she stood because she'd been kept in a cage in her own filth, so she had no normal doggy instincts. Her teats were huge and sagging. She wouldn't stay in a dog bed even if I lifted her into one, as she was only used to sleeping on the floor.

She'd never seen stairs. She'd never seen a glass door and kept bumping her head trying to walk through the glass. She'd collapse and mess herself if she saw another dog on a walk. She froze, rolled on her side and lay in terror. It took 2 months of constant calm affection from me before she'd approach me. When she first crept towards me and licked my fingers I would have broken down in tears, but I didn't want to scare her.

2 years on and she loves her walks, her 'big brother' dog (who taught her how to be a dog), and getting ear rubs. She's nearly always clean inside the house (but has to be monitored still!) and likes nothing more than to cuddle up on the sofa.

Her puppies - litter after litter - were taken from her and sold online through sites like Gumtree and Preloved. People talk about 'rescuing' the puppies by buying them. NO. They're not rescuing them, they're funding the farming of dogs like my beloved spaniel (shown flopped out with her head on my leg after finally learning to trust humans). Chained, kept in a cage in her own filth, sores all over her body, her spirit broken and her body weak - that's what people fund. It breaks my heart and makes me so angry.

@RIPWalter I concur, sometimes KC registration means sod all, particularly if the breeder lies about which bitch had which litter. I know assured KC breeders who are no better than puppy farmers.

Re early neutering, it’s pretty standard to wait til the dog is fully grown due to the leggy issue. I’m very surprised that your vet didn’t wait til at least 12 months. Given your family background, you must know about the link between early neutering and cruciate problems?

The pros and cons of neutering are fairly balanced, IMO, here’s a worthwhile link.
www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

As for avoiding the risk, I’ve never had an issue with 4 male dogs because I’m vigilant. Also, the majority of bitch owners are keen to avoid accidental matings so keep their dogs safe whilst in season.