To wonder why anyone would buy a puppy through gumtree or the like?

[SummerGems]

I’m not talking so much about why people would buy a puppy from a backyard breeder as that’s a discussion in its own right, but why anyone would log on to their local gumtree, look up the pets for sale adverts, and call the owner and arrange to go and collect a living breathing animal without having first met the “breeder” the dogs or had anything to do with them before jumping in the car and coming home with said puppy, usually at vast expense.

Looking at my local gumtree there are puppies for sale for as much as £2000, and even one for £1700 which is described at being available at “the bargain price of.....” . A bargain? For a living animal? .

Why?

On some level I can sort of see how someone might know someone locally with puppies and end up taking one. I wouldn’t but I can see how it happens. But answering an advert on a buying/selling website and collecting an animal from a complete stranger after handing over often upwards of a grand for what might even be a mongrel masquerading as a genuine breed (i.e. cockerpoo/cavachon/labradoodle and I even saw one described as a pomchi the other day, just why would anyone do that?

@HarrietKettleWasHere

I'm 100% certain that my dog, bought through an ad was not from a puppy farm. I checked the owners out as much as possible and it was obvious from our visits that they were genuine.

Whilst that may not always be the case, with some very basic checks it would be pretty easy to suss out if the sellers are not genuine. I would always want to be able to see both parents and preferably have full health checks for a pup.

Getting a rescue dog is not always possible for various reasons. For myself I wanted a specific breed and a puppy due to having young children at the time. If I get another dog I'd love a rescue Border Collie.

Have you ever actually sat down and read a pedigree dogs family tree, or read about genetic coefficients?

Yes. I have a pedigree dog that I waited years for. I'm still in touch with the breeder and six owners of the pups from this litter and his only other litter four years ago.

If "a decent breeder" isn't in it for the money then what are they in it for

Improving the genetics of the breed, breeding the next generation of working dogs, and occasionally breeding for show. Raising a litter of puppies properly involves huge amounts of work. It's time-consuming and expensive:

• health testing both parents
• taking time off work to be there for the labour and the first few weeks at least of the puppies lives
• any potential issues with the pregnancy need to be paid for - scans, problems with the birth, potentially unwell puppies or bitch
• getting all the puppies checked over by a vet
• getting their jabs done (at least one set, in some cases both sets)
• getting all the puppies microchipped
• sorting out KC registration and papers for the puppies
• insurance for the pups to go to their new home with (and good breeders will send things like blankets, toys, food etc. home as well)
• feeding a litter of puppies, a pregnant bitch and later, a feeding dam is not cheap.

I'm sure there are other costs, but those are the ones I've thought of off the top of my head.

Yep. Have looked at pedigrees for the breed. I don’t know enough to breed myself. Not a chance. Thankfully my breeder knows far more than me. They don’t breed dogs they own. The bitch my dog came from has only (and will only) have one litter in her lifetime. My breeder has also endorsed my pup meaning I can’t breed and KC reg without her express permission and approval. Hence she’s preventing dogs she breeds being used for unscrupulous breeding or being inbred.
The whole issue of breeding needs tightening up. As does the issue of owning dogs. Would love a dog licence to come back. People should have some (very) basic knowledge before taking on a dog.

If you don't know what a decent breeder is in it for, again, you really don't know anything about dogs at all.

If you didn't want a specific breed, then why not go to a rescue centre or the local pound?

I did keep looking at the rescue centres for suitable puppies but there weren't any.

Just because I didn't want a pedigree, didn't mean I didn't have criteria for the type of dog I wanted, relative to my needs, lifestyle and what we could offer the dog.

We want low shedding (asthmatic), put not poodle X due to high risk of puppy farming, and also they have just never really appealed to me.

We didn't want to risk too big a dog (a concern with a rescue puppy), as we have a very small cottage.

We didn't want a collie or collie X (which covers a large percentage of the dogs around where I live).

Dog needed to be robust enough for days out in the mountains. We kind of messed up on this count, as he is a half beddy lurcher and thinks the rain is out to get him!!

Both of my pedigree Lhasa's have come from preloaded. Both were met at few weeks, seen with mum and dad. Then met again at 7 weeks with mum, and we picked up at 12 weeks. Both owners had started to toilet train the pups which made things easier, and both dogs have turned out to be wonderful family pets. To buy a pedigree Lhasa from a registered breeder on the kennel club website, we were looking at upwards of £700. Both of our dogs were purchased for £450 with papers.

I have an ex- breeding queen (cat).

I have had her 6 months. She was relinquished to a rescue when they were finished with her. She is around 18m and has had at least two litters. When she went into foster she was terrified of everything. Wouldn’t eat.

I don’t think she’s ever been indoors. It took us a month to get her out from behind the washing machine. Then another 3 months before she’d come out of the dog cage she moved in to. She is obviously not used to normal household noises and will only come out at night when it’s quiet.

She has no muscle. She is sway backed and short legged where she has had kittens young and not had the opportunity to grow properly and move and jump and hunt like a cat.

My dog i went to a breeder. Rescues have a “first come first served” policy, and although we meet all the criteria, by the time i’d seen the dog, filled in the form and arranged a home check someone else had reserved it. I didn’t like the feeling of having to make a decision very very quickly or someone else would make it first. So i took my time, rang a lot of show breederswho only bred for showing. Found one with a year old dog they had intended to keep as a pet as he had a couple of issue which meant he couldn’t show. Us meeting them, them meeting us, making sure we would neuter as he shouldn’t be bred.

I have still been stopped in the street and asked if i wanted to breed from him as “he’s cute” and they have a chihuahua/maltese/whatever and we can sell the puppies.

People just see cute and don’t think of the animals. Case in point- go on kelly’s kennels facebook and there are many many posts asking if anyone has their pups brother or sister. Not one asking after the mother..

Totally agree that going to a registered breeder is no guarantee that these people are not just out to make money or have the animals best interest at heart. There was even a documentary on earlier in the years about the British Bulldog showing ‘reputable’ breeders that were breeding dogs with all manner of breathing and joint problems, just as cruel as puppy farms IMO. I would only ever use a rescue organisation to get a dog/cat, there are lots of smaller rescues that are more reasonable and will consider you if you’re not at home 24/7 or have children.

My dog was not bought through a puppy farm on Gumtree (but she was bought by the original owner from a 'reputable' puppy farm) (please note the ''). When I got her, they said that had had offers to buy her from 'breeders'. I am so glad she is safe now in our family (and neutered). But I am also aware that anyone buying from Gumtree (like me) perpetuates the trade. I love my dog, she is amazing. I do really wish though that sites like Gumtree, Preloved (the name breaks my heart) etc. Would ban pet sales. i would never have bought from there if the rescues would not disregard working couples. Although I know why they do, but we could always and would have always provided for our little lovely dog's wellbeing.

Or
To Wonder Why Anyone Would Buy A Puppy - FULL STOP!!

What you think they should be given away for free?
I couldn’t take on an older dog due to existing cats and kids. (Flighty kitties that had never lived with a dog before.)
I wanted this breed. They don’t generally come up in rescue. I paid a lot. But I know where she was bred, have ongoing support from the breeder. We have meet ups with her parents and siblings.

@adaline

My Mum bred various pedigree dog breeds and was on the board of the regional KC GS Club. I know how much commitment, money and time goes into breeding dogs. I personally don't know anyone who does it for purely altruistic reasons. Whilst obviously good breeders are animal lovers at the end of the day it is a business.

I have my current dogs family tree, he comes from generations of field trial champions, he was quite expensive. My previous dog whilst a pure breed was not KC registered and I had no history for him other than his parents, he cost £50. They are/were both beautiful, healthy dogs. Both bought from ads.

There will always be small scale breeders who will advertise on the likes of Gumtree or sell through word of mouth. They are not all puppy farmers or doing anything wrong.

adaline - the breeder that I bought off did all those things, and yet still advertised on Pets4Homes.

I’m honestly not saying that unscrupulous, callous breeding thieves aren’t out there, just that not everyone who advertises online is one of them.

Few small scale or backyard breeders know enough to guarantee healthy pups.
Really good breeders don’t make enough money for it to be a business.

It's so much easier to get a puppy via the internet. (And I don't think it's particularly wrong - only NM thinks it is.) Some breeders as well as rescue centres have you jump through hoops in order to get a puppy/ dog. Some breeders don't do waiting lists - they would not be able to satisfy demand. And for some future owners, it is important that the puppy comes into the home at a specific time. (I for one would never buy a winter puppy - house training is easier in summer when the door to the garden is open.)
I have been turned down by both, because my DC where to young or my garden not big enough, I didn't want my 16 week old puppy neutered - I wanted to wait till dog was older- or (the best one!) I didn't have experience with the breed. I have had dogs all my life - from tiny snappy rescues to uncontrollable giant breed, relentless hunters and utterly scared dogs.

Not puppy, but I got my cat from pets4homes when she was 3 months old. Not a farm. Not a backyard breeder of any kind. Woman who was going through a divorce and couldn't take kitten with her. Collected the kitten from her house, still exchange emails with updates years down the line.

It’s not about making it “easy”. It’s about animal welfare. Both of pups and parents.
This isn’t NM.

We bought a English springer spaniel from preloved pets and she is the 2nd best thing we have ever done. We also bought a boy English springer pup from kennel club (pedigree website) and found he was from a puppy farm which we got shut down. My boys dad was bred to have 40 puppies and they had 20 English springer bitches. But still. They are both the second best thing I have ever done. (First have my daughter ☺️)

Paie she should’ve gone through rescue. Luckily your cat landed on its feet. Not every animal sold online does.

@Wolfiefan

The top professional breeders with Crufts winners in their lines make a fortune! If "good" breeders didn't make a profit the majority would not bother to breed.

@RPC28

Glad you got the puppy farm shut down. My parents got caught out by dodgy KC breeders too. We had a KC Registered Cocker Spaniel, from a supposedly reputable breeder, when I was a kid. He had every problem going (eyes, ears, stomach, hips), he lived to 14, but every day of his life was impacted by his various inbred conditions.

As far as I am concerned KC registration is meaningless, and that is why I would never get a pedigree dog (or a designer crossbreed).

No. Breeders like mine breed because they love the breed and want to maintain what’s good in it. They breed rarely, have huge expenses when they do and can’t work and have a litter at the same time. It’s not a money spinner.

There's a whole load of bollocks on this thread from people who know fuck all and just want to justify their support of the type of people who advertise dogs on the Internet.

Disgusting.

Not from me.

We bought a couple of kittens from gumtree five years ago, mainly because we were impatient and wanted them straight away. All the rescue places we contacted wouldn’t consider us because we lived in rented accommodation and so we couldn’t put a cat door in, plus we both worked (though I am able to work from home 2 days a week, and DP another day so they are on their own only 2 days) They’re moggies, but both black, which is what I wanted. When we picked them up, the seller’s house looked really chaotic and I was a little taken aback at how scruffy it was to be honest. We took them to the vets the next day and found they had ear mites and one had a cold. Anyway, we treated them for those things, they had their jabs, and we had them spayed/castrated as soon as they were old enough, and aside from regular boosters, they’ve never needed to go back to the vets.

We own our own house now and have a kitty door now and I only work out of the home one day a week, and they have a completely pampared existence. They’re both lovely, friendly, happy, healthy cats, and I don’t regret getting them, but I do regret the way we got them.