To wonder why anyone would buy a puppy through gumtree or the like?

[SummerGems]

I’m not talking so much about why people would buy a puppy from a backyard breeder as that’s a discussion in its own right, but why anyone would log on to their local gumtree, look up the pets for sale adverts, and call the owner and arrange to go and collect a living breathing animal without having first met the “breeder” the dogs or had anything to do with them before jumping in the car and coming home with said puppy, usually at vast expense.

Looking at my local gumtree there are puppies for sale for as much as £2000, and even one for £1700 which is described at being available at “the bargain price of.....” . A bargain? For a living animal? .

Why?

On some level I can sort of see how someone might know someone locally with puppies and end up taking one. I wouldn’t but I can see how it happens. But answering an advert on a buying/selling website and collecting an animal from a complete stranger after handing over often upwards of a grand for what might even be a mongrel masquerading as a genuine breed (i.e. cockerpoo/cavachon/labradoodle and I even saw one described as a pomchi the other day, just why would anyone do that?

I can quite understand wanting a dog for the way it looks, or its nature, or abilities. So if I was walking down the kennels at Battersea Dogs Home or wherever, there would be a lot of potentially lovely dogs that wouldnt appeal to me and what I want in a dog. Sad, but true. EG I am not keen on poodle or collie types for various probably not quite right reasons, but there it is. I am a Labrador/Boxer/GSD fan, again my reasons could be questioned I suppose but it's personal choice.

What is so wrong is that you can just buy a living creature off the internet, with no real understanding of how that puppy got to be born there. Our new Lab rescue will be 3 next month. She's had 2, maybe 3, litters already. She was dumped, presumably because having had too many litters too young makes her a potential liability next time the lovely family home wanted to make a few ££ on the side.

I have no doubt her puppies were gorgeous, I'm sure she was a great mum, but fact is - her purpose was served.

PLEASE DONT BUY A DOG OFF A WEBSITE!! unless (and maybe not even then) it is from someone you have checked out via numerous sources, cross-referenced etc etc.

Reporting me for what? Asking a question? Someone was sockpuppeting on the thread that you brought up, and it was about how terrible I was for rescuing a pug, much the same as you are doing on this thread.

If I can't take what, exactly? Goodness me

Labradoodle vs. Poodle.

*ProfessorMoody

Reporting me for what? Asking a question? Someone was sockpuppeting on the thread thatyoubrought up, and it was about how terrible I was for rescuing a pug, much the same as you are doing on this thread*

1. For accusing me of being a sockpuppet
2. For calling me thick...
3. I have not, and never would "rescue" a dog that can't breathe. I have, however, rescued other breeds, cross breeds and mongrels that are healthy..

So @PennyArcade pugs and French Bulldogs should all be left to rot in rescue centres or pts?

I don’t agree with all the militants on this thread either way. But I do agree giant breeds shouldn’t be neutered until about 18 months so going to have to deal with my pup humping for another 10 months.

Yes I bought a puppy naughty me
Yes because I liked the aesthetics of the breed oh it gets worse
Yes he is KC registered strike me down

Not everyone wants to rescue. A puppy fitted our family. The breeder is well known in the schnauzer “circles”. Giant Schnauzers rarely if ever come up for rescue because they are awesome

*I didn't accuse you, I asked if you were the same person.

Totally called you thick. If the cap fits.

You still don't seem to understand that my 9 year old dog has been breathing for... 9 years. It's such a simple concept. Good for you though, for being so selective about your rescue dogs. I was just happy to give a lovely dog a good home - his breed didn't matter to me as long as he wasn't killed*

Glad to see your post has been deleted... I'm.not thick! I have rehomed many dogs.... I don't feel the need to post it over social networking sites... and call other people "thick". You are out of order!

But you're advocating the needless killing of rescue pugs because by your logic, none of them can breathe, ever. That's pretty disgusting.

This isn't a social networking site, by the way

Umm .. you are fixed on breeders who breed the ultimately supreme dogs....whilst owning a dog from a rescue centre who can't breathe....

I, amongst others, have "rescued" dogs from re-homing centres.. that doesn't make us "the supreme".. that makes us human... .give it up FFS!

When we got our dog we didn’t care about a pedigree with certs. We had been on lists for a rehoming My dh went to see the dog. Checked he was with his mother and siblings and then went a few weeks later to pick him up. Dog was advertised on gumtree. I didn’t realise all gumtree dog sales are disreputable?

Penny, in the nicest possible way, you are coming across as a little unhinged. ProfessorM has stated several times her dog can breathe. The fact that it is nine years old, surely proves that it can breathe?

And also, rescuing a brachycephalic breed from a rescue center is not lining the breeders pocket and therefore not perpetuating the circle. If a breeder cannot sell all their puppies, they will stop breeding. Once they've sold them they don't give a flying fuck what happens to them. They're not gonna turn around and say, "Oh, rescue centers are full of pugs so I best stop breeding even though I'm still making ££££."

People like ProfessorM who rescue from legitimate rescues are not adding to the problem, they are reducing it. Those who "rescue" puppies from Gumtree are adding to the problem.

Penny, you're making less and less sense the longer you go on. I'll leave you now to your inane witterings as they're becoming unintelligible.

I had a brachycephalic dog once for a few years... he was old and had heart problems and left abandoned tied to our gate.

Should we have left him there because I think whoever bred him was negligent or because whoever had owned him was obviously completely heartless? Or left him to be PTS at the pound because obviously they didn’t claim him and an elderly dog needing medication isn’t easy to rehome?

Because I’m not really seeing how us taking him instead is supporting either the breed, the breeder or his last owner tbh.

Here I go again with the stupidness but I feel I am still missing the point of the whole 'designer dogs' debate.
Surely there are lots of pedigree dogs bred poorly too? And considered fashionable and popular and given high price tags because of this? Like Chihuahuas, pugs, Bichon, even labs or GSD?
It seems a lot of people get really upset with the name some cross breeds are given, which I also don't understand. Surely most people are aware they aren't actually breeds but crosses, but I don't really see the harm in mixing two names to give them an easier and recognisable identity? It is done with lots of things, Brexit springs to mind.
I also struggle to understand that people will spend a small fortune on an animal on a whim, but maybe that's just me.
I also don't think if you rescue a dog it means that the animal won't be returned to the shelter or abused and unfortunately even with checks (which they don't all do) no shelter can know that they are not giving an animal away to someone who will abuse or dump it, so I don't think mistreatment of pets it's necessarily a product of breeders online, but rather of disgusting human beings.
I do understand concerns over online ads however I don't think it is fair to say that if you won't travel the country for one you shouldn't have a dog. For example people who can't drive perhaps don't have this option and maybe do not want to take a puppy home on a train, where dirty hands and other dogs could be an issue?

We bought our pug and one of our chis from online ads. Neither were puppies and neither was from a breeder - they were people who couldn’t look after their dogs for various reasons. My other dog I bought from a KC breeder as a puppy.

We are lucky with our pug - her breathing is fine. However I see how she struggles compared to the chis and I can say I wouldn’t buy a pug puppy knowing this.

Surely there are lots of pedigree dogs bred poorly too

Absolutely, from disreputable breeders.

given high price tags because of this

Absolutely, from disreputable breeders.

It seems a lot of people get really upset with the name some cross breeds are given, which I also don't understand. Surely most people are aware they aren't actually breeds but crosses

Nope, many people haven't a clue. They genuinely think they are breeds now, which is appalling. It goes to show how little research they've done and how successful these puppy farmers are at pulling the wool over people's eyes. Not only does it con stupid people, but it glorifies the needless breeding and crossing of whatever breed is popular at the time.

I also struggle to understand that people will spend a small fortune on an animal on a whim

Oh, they do. They also then dump them in rescue and say things like, "but I paid £1000 for this dog because its a kangorillapoo, can you give me anything for it?". Seriously.

I do understand concerns over online ads however I don't think it is fair to say that if you won't travel the country for one you shouldn't have a dog

Ah now I didn't say that. I said people should be prepared to travel for the right dog. If the only dogs available are puppy farmed dogs and you don't drive, then no I don't think you should have a dog. Oh, and the conditions on a puppy farm are going to be worse than dirty hands on a train.

kangorillapoo 😂
But really that is shocking. I don't understand how anyone that can't look after an animal they have chosen to get can expect to make profit from it!
I have read on various sites that a lot of these dogs are bred with companion dog in mind, as opposed to working or show purposes, does this not make sense when crossing breeds for a reason other than £? Also with the case of unhealthy breeds such as Cav King Charles, that generations of cross breeding could eventually rule out some of the many health issues they suffer? I know that crossing doesn't mean health issues are irradicated but could be after many many years and lots of research? Similar to how we have all the different dog breeds today? (Sorry for going back to that again but I can't help but feel as though all dogs where once cross so I don't understand why there can't ever be any new breed of dog)
And that is a very fair point about puppy farms vs dirty hands, my thought process was wrong there.
Please don't shoot me down, I have always had rescues and have only ever had one pedigree, but long story short I now have a mini labradoodle and I didn't buy him on gumtree but later found out he was posted there. I read lots on good breeders but mostly what I learned was what to avoid I.e multiple litters, dams that didn't respond to their names or weren't present, dirty conditions, no documents etc. None of these things where an issue and so I felt comfortable.
I realise now however I have been very ignorant despite the year of research I put in. Genes boggle my head and the furthest I got was to understand that genetic testing on both parents should be done and that the temperament of both should be good (I met them both and phoned their vet to confirm this). I did not however take the time to find out just how much thought or reasoning went into breeding this litter and after this thread I am regretful for that (however wouldn't give dog up for all the money/house wrecking in the world now)
The breeder was crying as I took pup and I took this to mean she cared very much, however a few days after I tried to contact her to ask about worming and she hasn't got back to me a week later, which is also worrying.
Thank you for answering my questions

“I have read on various sites that a lot of these dogs are bred with companion dog in mind, as opposed to working or show purposes, does this not make sense”

Not really no, firstly there are breeds that are already perfectly suited to being companion dogs, as you mentioned cavs, that’s what they are, how do you get a more suitable one by crossing it? Labradoodles aren’t magically any less of two working breeds just because they’re crossed.

Breeding to show doesn’t somehow create dogs that can’t be pets, they are pets, they just are used for a hobby as well.

“Also with the case of unhealthy breeds such as Cav King Charles, that generations of cross breeding could eventually rule out some of the many health issues they suffer?”

Except nobody is doing that.

Dalmatian breeders have just done a really carefully thought out cross breeding programme to help a medical condition - it took years and careful selection and a lot of work.

That isn’t wha people selling random crosses are doing.

Agirl - that's exactly why dogs like Cavaliers, GSDs, Pugs etc have problems. Because people who don't care and just wish to farm puppies breed and breed them without health tests or genetic knowledge, then you get problems like there are today.

Reputable breeders make it their life's work to breed OUT problems through carefully selected imported dogs, genetic testing, health testing and years and years of research.

I may show and work my dogs, but they are first and foremost my pets, as they are to most decent people.

I didn't mean that two working dogs crossed 'magically turned them into companion dogs' and esp not labxpoodle just thats what I had read and I'm ignorant as to why there can't be any reason to develop a new breed of dog, though I understand randomly breeding litters does not accomplish this and is a separate topic/question. Presumably companion breeds also originally where created from working dogs.
I just got the feeling from this thread that even a very reputable breeder who knows what they are doing should not be crossing anything with a poodle or trying to create new breeds at all. Perhaps I am missing the point.
I also did think (not why I got my dog) that F2 labradoodles had quite a small risk of being heavy shedders, not completely guaranteed but in the same way that a generally healthy dog can still have health or temperament issues.
And apologies, I wasn't implying that if you have a show or working dog they can't also be beloved pets (although I think in some cases when they have seen the best of their day they are sold, dumped or even killed) I was just trying to establish if there where other reasons than these for breeding a mix dog that could somehow justify the need for it.

“Presumably companion breeds also originally where created from working dogs.”

Ish... people started creating breeds fairly recently compared to how long dogs have been about tbh. Before that you got types because dogs that were being bred to perform a certain duty tend to come out a certain way, then some things were purposefully bred for on top of that.

But purposefully creating a breed is pretty unethical tbh, that’s why people don’t really do it anymore, it’s involves creating lots of dogs that are surplus to requirements and takes generations to get anything near stable results.

There also aren’t really many gaps, whatever traits you’re looking for, you’d find a breed already that has them.

We got our dcat off gumtree. It was our only option as the rescue centre we tried said we were not eligible as we are renters and at the time had a child under 5. It was a young mum with 2 very young dc and she said she didn't have time for him. I realized from stains on the carpet that he wasn't lifted trained. He is the most liked member of the fami ly.

But purposefully creating a breed is pretty unethical tbh, that’s why people don’t really do it anymore, it’s involves creating lots of dogs that are surplus to requirements and takes generations to get anything near stable results.
This has helped me understand it in quite a different light actually.

Of course new breeds can be created. They can be created when there is a need for them and it should be done properly.

The original breeder of the labradoodle, for example, crossed a lab and poodle because he needed a non-shedding dog with the temperament of a lab. There was a need. And he didn't just take a random poodle and a random lab and stick them together and hope for the best. A lot of research went into it. The dogs were carefully selected. The puppies they then bred from were carefully selected to enhance the desired features while weeding out problems.

Breeders of 'poo dogs don't do that. They take a random poodle and cross it with a random whatever, stick a silly name and price tag on it and wait for the £s to start rolling in. There is no need to create a non-shedding lap dog. We have non shedding lapdogs eg bichon frise and Italian greyhounds. There is no need to create small, non shedding working dogs. We have them already eg the poodle, the cairn terrier, most water dogs.

Creating new breeds when there are already so many dogs in rescue being pts because people didn't realise their working breed needed to work is immoral. Buying a dog because it has a cutesy name and is fluffy with no consideration as to its needs, health or why it was bred, is immoral.

The creator the labradoodle cross now vehemently regrets what he did because of the fashion trend he sparked and the dogs who are suffering because of it. What should have been a valuable contribution to the blind community created a pandemic of over bred, unhealthy and unwanted dogs because a sizable minority of people saw £££ flashing in their eyes.

Dogs are not and should not be a commodity. They are sentient beings. They should be worked or kept as members of the family not used to create profit to the detriment of their wellbeing.

As an example when trying to breed a hypoallergenic mix for use as a guide dog, whilst I do think this a wonderful thing for disabled people with allergies, there may be one dog in a litter who is low shedding and passes the test as a guide dog, meaning the rest where pointlessly bred and thus not always best for the dog. Obviously that's on a much smaller scale but I think this is what you mean.