To believe that trans is not a mental health condition

[Babykoala1]

Preparing to get flamed of course and expecting feminists to come out in full fource. Just as the title suggests, I do not believe that trans is a mental health condition as much as homosexuality or even intersex would be considered a mental health condition. I'm sure here on Mumsnet I am in the minority and I will be absolutely flamed for having the audacity to compare it to homosexuality. But really? Why is homosexuality accepted as a part of biology yet trans can be automatically discarded as a mental health issue?

I'll get my coat

X posts

But yeah don't do that thing please

What leads you to the assumption that trans is a "nature" example, whereas anorexia is a "nurture" example?

Personally if I were randomly speculating based on personal anecdata, I'd suggest that yes - Autism's are largely Nature and present from birth, but that both sex dysphoria and anorexia are Nurture (as they tend to pop up during adolescence), and that both could potentially be partly caused by affected body schema due to ASC's.

beyond by physical I meant can't be seen, maybe the wording was not correct but I didn't know how else to phrase it.
I believe there are neurological reasons that are unable to be seen that present themselves as a "mental health condition". My title is perhaps misleading, I think that trans is a mental condition that has an underlying cause (that isn't social conditioning) Also, I never said that intersex was a mental health condition (wtf) that was my point.

brain functionalities in common with those of the sex not assigned at birth than with whom they were

Where is the evidence of ‘lady brains’ though? Studies have shown that any differences in abilities are due to social conditioning. Females are not born with brains that like pink fluffy crap and an lack of spatial awareness. It worries me that ideas of ‘man’ and ‘woman’ brains enforce sexist ideas. You cannot tell from a scan whether a brain is male or female.

"by physical I meant can't be seen"

Is that autocorrecting from psychological? I'm trying to understand, just hitting a bit of a brick wall on comprehension here. I apologise if it is entirely me, due to it being Sunday morning

Wonder if any of the PPs at the start might like to reflect on the fact that this thread is not vile, 'shouting down' transphobia and in fact a reasoned and respectful debate?

How is the trans belief that their body is wrong different from the belief of someone with anorexia that their body is wrong?

I think there's a fair comparison medically with earlier homosexuality in terms of how society views any people with suspected mental illness. But this proves what? That all people with mental illnesses are being misdiagnosed, and nothing is really a mental illness at all?

No, we know homosexuality is not a mental illness. But that has nothing to do with whether or not gender dysphoria/transgenderism is. Do you think one day we will look back and shake our heads in shame at classifying anorexia and depression as mental illnesses?

This.

I think the first happens, I don't think the second is possible.

Same.

Cordelia Fine writes really well on the research around 'lady brains' etc.

Let me just check with DC1.

How is the trans belief that their body is wrong different from the belief of someone with anorexia that their body is wrong?

A qualitative difference is that someone with anorexia believes their body to be in a physical situation that it testable, objective measure it is not.

Trans people do not believe their bodies to be any different physically than what it is.

Basically you can prove what one believes to be false in a lab. But not the other.

As for the OP. No not U. I do not think it U to question whether it is one either.

There is no objective standard as to what constitutes a mental illness. A lot of it come down to subjective standards of normality. Think of how homosexuality was once a MI but now isn't, whereas an attraction to children still is classed as one. People stopped seeing homosexuality as wrong but still think of the other as wrong. Hence one no longer an illness, the other still is.

OP The point I'm trying to make I guess is that some mental health issues are the result of genetics and others are environmental

But it's generally not as simple as that. Most conditions or disorders are a mixture of those two things. The genetic component is usually what's called a "predisposition" to develop the condition given certain environmental factors, and that predisposition can be stronger or weaker depending on the individual's genetic make-up.

Dyspraxia is similar to autism in that it's a developmental disability, as a previous poster said, not a mental health condition.

Anxiety may well have a genetic component, in that not everyone will become severely anxious from the same stimuli. Personally, I think we may find when we know more that there is a genetic factor in someone believing they're trans as a child and having gender dysphoria, but there haven't been enough studies done yet to be sure.

However, referring to your original post, if you look at studies of identical twins, there certainly isn't any indication that the genetic component for trans is higher than it is for homosexuality.

Probably will be flamed for that last bit..

Seriously can you stop saying this

I honestly dont think youve been flamed yet...its just a discussion

I think 90% of posters have similar views, it just suits the agenda of some people (not you) to pretend that its very black and white

Basically you can prove what one believes to be false in a lab

You cannot prove anyone’s beliefs about anything in a lab. 🙄

You cannot prove anyone’s beliefs about anything in a lab.

If you believed your blood type was O- this could be proven or disproven in a lab?

Discussion is always a step towards solution.
It benefits certain people to shut it down. But threads similar to this are helping in small steps, all talking is.

Whether you blood type is O-ive can be proven, whether you believe that cannot.

My title is perhaps misleading, I think that trans is a mental condition that has an underlying cause (that isn't social conditioning)

How would you ever know this unless we lived in that truly androgynous society? If there were generic markers to indicate being trans then they'd be detectable in newborn babies right? Most children are hit with stereotypes right from birth. I can see why you might want to believe that being trans is innate, and written in your code but I simply don't. If you strip away the gender stereotypes that the ideology is pinned on then I don't think anyone would be transgender. You might still have individuals with dysmorphia but that is a mental illness, as it is if one wants to get rid of a leg or arm. We treat their mind, we don't chop their arm off.

A qualitative difference is that someone with anorexia believes their body to be in a physical situation that it testable, objective measure it is not.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/hunger-artist/200908/five-anorexia-myths-exploded

See no. 4.

Video explaining why WHO moved 'gender incongruence' as they are now calling it out of mental health and into a new chapter - sexual health. She says at one point, 'We had better understanding that this wasn't actually a mental health condition' but does not elaborate on that.

Apart from that one short, inconclusive statement, it's all about reducing stigma.

I think it would be better if we reduced stigma around mental health conditions in general.

"I'm a boy and I like boys."
Group 1 - "That's fine. There is nothing wrong with you. You can like whoever you want."
Group 2 - "That means you need therapy to fix yourself."

"I'm a boy but I like wearing dresses and painting my nails."
Group 1 - "That's fine. There is nothing wrong with you. You can like whatever you want."
Group 2 - "That means you are really a girl and need treatment to fix your body to look more like one."

^^ This. A very clear comparison which reveals the regressive homophobia behind trans ideology. Thank you, PatriciaBateman.

jellyfrizz that is the experience of one person, but fair enough in that or similar cases.

Though we are still dealing with warped perceptions of what is "thin" or "ideal". They look at their body and perceive it in ways that 99% of the rest of us do not. Trans people agree full well with everyone else what their body is.

Some of them may want it to be different, but that does not derive from a belief that their current body is not X when to 99% of us, it is X. They know it is X they want it to be Y.

I'm very surprised at the amount of people posting here who have no idea that Male and female brains are significantly different, from processing to structure.

Here is an article, one of many, that attempts to explain it simply.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders