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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Transgender

101 replies

idontunderstandxyz · 27/10/2018 11:51

So, Iv been brought up Christian, not overly religious but do believe in god. BUT iv always been the person that says you can love who you want and be who you want, I will never judge you it is not my job to do that, being transgender wasn't really a thing when I was growing up but i was 'all for it' the kind of 'you do you' perspective and would support a friend/family member if need be.

Then I saw this on YouTube ( skip to 5.35)

Gigi gorgeous is someone I always looked up to and thought yeah she's an amazing WOMAN setting the path for transgender teens etc!!! Then I watch this video and find out she still has a penis that she ACTIVELY uses to have intercourse with her girlfriend and is trying to get her pregnant ???

AIBU to say you can't tell everyone your a flipping female and have struggled with the body you were born in all your life for you to then tell the whole world including young trans people that you still have and use your penis ?

I just can't wrap my head around this at all....

OP posts:
TerfedOff · 27/10/2018 20:51

There is a lot of deception involved I agree.

"Passing" means successfully deceiving people.

toomanyeggs · 28/10/2018 01:09

@wrongsideofhistorymyarse. Unbelievable. Sad Shock

Melondramatic · 28/10/2018 07:11

Flowers wrongsideofhistorymyarse

VladmirsPoutine · 28/10/2018 07:15

What's a bit of penis here or there in the big scheme of things?

Melondramatic · 28/10/2018 07:15

There is also the 'deception', that we are being lead to believe that transgender people have such a horrendous time because they are so unhappy with their bodies. It makes them suicidal. This is the premise for self-identification becoming accepted

Its the realisation isnt it, that 90% of these individuals DONT experience this dysphoria AT ALL. It is actually just dress up. Its a kick in the teeth when you realise that society (and people you have admired) think your whole existence as a woman is equal to hair extensions and heavy makeup

LonginesPrime · 28/10/2018 07:53

Then I watch this video and find out she still has a penis that she ACTIVELY uses to have intercourse with her girlfriend and is trying to get her pregnant ?

OP, where in the video does Gigi say that?

I fully accept that I might have zoned out (it was looong) but I only heard her talking about how difficult it was to go to a sperm/egg freezing clinic and how sad she is that she won't be able to get pregnant. When did she talk about sex and actively trying for a baby at home?

jellyfrizz · 28/10/2018 08:18

Why are you so obsessed with another person’s genitals? Like to the point where it changes your whole view of them? I manage to go through my whole life without fixating on the fannies and penises of people I meet - as I expect most people do.

I imagine it's like following someone on Youtube who calls themselves a passionate vegan and makes loads of videos about being a vegan, only then you find out that their definition of vegan involves eating meat.

It doesn't make you meat obsessed to change your view of them does it?

Melondramatic · 28/10/2018 08:19

Nearish the beginning longinesprime. He strongly alluded to it, without spelling it out.

Still confused as to why they are getting ova and sperm frozen (read...i dont believe him)

letsghostdance · 28/10/2018 08:25

This all boils down to the fact that different people experience the world in different ways. While some trans people may have such profound dysphoria that they can't acknowledge their penis, others may not have this at all. Everyone experiences the world and their gender in different ways. This woman doesn't appear to be hurting anyone. Live and let live, I'd say.

letsghostdance · 28/10/2018 08:28

@fishcanfly but how on earth is it any of your business what two consenting adults are up to? Would you be just as morally outraged by a couple talking about how they loved BDSM? Or if they were poly? Or if they were furries?

Why are you the morality police?

SnuggyBuggy · 28/10/2018 08:29

I do agree that it's pretty offensive to women to reduce us to a stereotype of hairstyles, make up, nails and dresses and claiming that all you need to do to become a woman is to dress like a stereotype of one. I mean wear what you want but it doesn't change your sex.

jellyfrizz · 28/10/2018 08:30

This all boils down to the fact that different people experience the world in different ways. While some trans people may have such profound dysphoria that they can't acknowledge their penis, others may not have this at all. Everyone experiences the world and their gender in different ways. This woman doesn't appear to be hurting anyone. Live and let live, I'd say.

I absolutely agree. Gender is not sex so we should stop conflating the two.

NicePieceOfPlaid · 28/10/2018 08:32

Women don't have penises.

Woman = adult human female.

It's time everyone realised this. Biology isn't negotiable.

RiverTam · 28/10/2018 08:43

It simply proves the point that a lot, possibly most, people calling themselves trans don’t have sex disphoria, they are simply feminine men or masculine women, and/or have a fetish. None of which proves the lie that you can change sex and none of which means we have to change any laws with regard to single sex spaces.

Woman= adult human female
Man=adult human male
Transwoman= man
Transman= woman

Mishappening · 28/10/2018 08:48

Me, me, me indeed!

ThatssomebadhatHarry · 28/10/2018 08:55

There is no clear definition of Trans it’s up to every trans person to decide the rules that day, which may actually be different from the rules yesterday. Their prerogative. If you don’t agree you are a bigoted transphobic terf and you can shove your useless ovaries up you useless vagina. Either way shut up about it as your voice doesn’t matter.

Deadringer · 28/10/2018 10:38

biology isn't negotiable
Hear hear.

ElainaElephant · 29/10/2018 07:19

biology isn't negotiable

Indeed.

What makes us male or female biologically?

Let's just take the following (there are more)

External sex organs
Internal sex organs
Chromosomes
Hormones

So when we decide when a baby is born whether they are make or female, we solely base this on external sex organs. That's it. There is no hormone test, no checking of chromosomes or whether or not someone has ovaries. And usually that's ok.

But there are people that present as male that have xy chromosomes and people that present as female with xx. Or xxy or xxxxxy or other combinations of these hormones.

There are people born with a penis that also have ovaries, or people born with no penis that have testicular tissue surrounding their ovaries.

There are people born female with high levels of testosterone, and people born male that might have high testosterone, but have no way for their bodies to make use of it and so don't develop in the typical way.

These types of issues occur in roughly the same numbers as people that have red hair. Not common, but not rare either.

People that have this type of nonstandard biology have often been assigned the sex that they most appear like. In some cases its not at all obvious that there is an issue. If as they grow they identify as being the other sex, they are classed as trans.

I'm not saying that this is the case for all trans people, but it's clearly not as simple as 'biology isn't negotiable'.

In addition there are many cultures that either currently or have historically acknowledged 3 or more genders. The ones that used to and no longer do often became part of the British empire and were adopted into the binary system we perceive gender bringing to.

I'm not getting involved in debate here, I am not an expert. I tend to limit getting involved in these discussions because they can be so divisive and I understand why. But the headline issues (such as male/trans female in prison, trans female wins sporting event) skew the public perception of trans people who have no such agenda and just want to get on with their lives.

thedancingbear · 29/10/2018 07:32

The premise of this thread, and lots of what's posted on it, is transphobic.

First, I agree with the MN consensus that there are problems with self-ID. The stock response on here to allegations of transphobia is that MN posters have no problem with transpeople themselves, that the problems are unfettered access to prisons, changing rooms etc, and trans activists using an ideology to roll back the positive inroads feminists have made.

Threads like this one show that, for some posters, this is bollocks. Trans people are being derided for having the brass neck simply to exist. There have been a glut of threads like this recently: the parkrun thread, the thread about trans people having a day of remembrance, the one about self-ID in schools which had all sorts of derogatory language about young trans-people.

There's something you say on here isn't there? 'When someone tells you what they are, listen'. I'm listening, and so are lots of others.

thedancingbear · 29/10/2018 07:36

I meant to add - all the people on here saying, 'we've no problem with them living their lives quietly, we just don't want them broadcasting what they get up to' -

you sound like the worst kind of dog-whistle homophobes who know that their attitudes no longer wash and just want to retreat into their shell of intolerance. 'Bloody gays, I don't care what they do but I don't see why they have to bang on about it'.

This place has been really instructive for me lately. Again, when someone tells you what they are, listen.

MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 29/10/2018 08:08

ElainaElephant biology is our root. It just is. You are born male or female.

Trans gender is now a multitude of different things.

Where we have separated people by biological sex we should continue to do so.

Where it is easily ascertained such as in sports, hospital wards, prisons etc this can easily be done.

titchy · 29/10/2018 08:11

Elephant that's rubbish. The incidence of intersex is significantly lower, SIGNIFICANTLY, than the number of people with red hair.

And again, what has intersex got to do with trans. Trans people aren't intersex.

HandsOffMyRights · 29/10/2018 08:17

YANBU people with penises are men, not women.

It is also an insult to lesbians when a man claims he's lesbian.

This is just a straight couple.

ElainaElephant · 29/10/2018 08:34

The thing is, not all people are born male or female. That's exactly my point.

And the number of people registered as intersex is indeed way lower than the number of people with red hair. But that's because many of these anomalies are not detected at birth, and many intersex people are assigned male or female at birth.

And I'm not saying all intersex people are trans (but some are) or that all trans people are intersex (but some are).

I'm just saying, the facts are that it's not as black and white as people want to believe.

HandsOffMyRights · 29/10/2018 08:38

Nobody is assigned male or female at birth, sex is recorded.

Intersex people are fed up of being used in this argument, as Mrkhtake2 on Twitter regularly points out to people who are confused over intersex.

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