To start a thread to nurture understanding of the different school systems in the UK

[TamiTayorismyparentingguru]

There are SO MANY posts on MN (usually from English posters) about why our kids are in school/not in school, why we use different names for things, not understanding the ages of kids etc so I thought I would start a thread for a bit of mutual education as it were. If we all understood that the UK is not one homogenous whole perhaps we would all get along a little better!

Ok - here goes:

SCOTLAND
Pre-school

• 2 years known as Ante-Pre and Pre-School.
• Child is entitled to begin from the term after their 3rd birthday. (This means some children will get 2 full years, some will not depending on when their birthday falls.)

Primary School

• 7 years beginning with Primary 1 (most often referred to as P1) up to Primary 7 (P7)
• Child begins at either age 4 or 5 depending on when their birthday falls. Child has to be 4 by end of Feb to begin the following August. The youngest child will therefore be 4.5 by the time they start school.
• If child has a birthday in Jan or Feb the parents have free choice to send child to school at 4, or to defer entry until the following year when they are 5. If they defer they are entitled to another year of fully funded pre-school. This is entirely the parent’s choice and while schools will advise, it is ultimately up to the parents.
• Technically mid-Aug - Dec birthdays can also defer as the only legal requirement in Scotland is to start school before your 6th birthday but if this is done without the recommendation/agreement of the nursery school/primary school then another year of funded pre-school is not guaranteed. This is not common and usually only happens if there are additional needs and with the backing of an ed-psych report.
• Some council areas allow for early entry for those born Mar- mid Aug but this is again only done with an ed psych report and is not a right - no school is obligated to take a child at 4 if their birthday is Mar - mid Aug.
• There are catchment areas and provided you live in the catchment area before March of the normal entry year (p1) you are guaranteed a place at your catchment school. You can apply to another school via a placing request (also used for people who move into an area after the normal entry point) and this is often approved, but it is not guaranteed and of course there are schools which are always over-subscribed with placing requests where it is harder to get into.

Seconday School/High School

• as per another thread: commonly referred to as high school, also referred to as secondary school or Academy depending on where you live.
• 6 years, beginning with S1 and finishing with S6.
• In S4 pupils sit their first external exams as a cohort - these are called National 5s (Or Nat 5s). Pupils will usually study for 6/7/8 subjects depending on their school. There is another option of Nat 4s which follow a similar syllabus but which don’t have any exams at the end.
• If pupils are 16 at the end of S4 they can leave school.
• S5 is when pupils who choose to return to school study for their Highers. In most cases this will be 5 subjects. Higher exams are at the end of 5th year and once again pupils can leave at the end of that year. Scottish students can go to university with higher results meaning it is possible for Scottish students to start university at age 16/17.
• S6 is the year for Advanced Highers - usually 3/4 subjects.
• As with Primary school - you have a catchment school and are guaranteed a place at that school if you live there before March of your P7 year.

The school year

• The school year begins mid-Aug and usually finishes either at the end of June or beginning of July.
• We get 1/2 weeks off in October - this is earlier than half term in the rest of the UK.
• We also get 2 weeks holiday in December, 2 weeks in March/April (this isn’t always actually over the Easter period) and then 6/7 weeks in the summer.
• We get half term in Feb which could range from 2 days to a week depending on where you are.
• We do not get half term in May - usually just 1 day for May Day.

The system is completely different to the English system and also different to the system in place in NI - both in terms of academics and in terms of school structure/terms.

Now - as I’ve gone on far too long, perhaps someone else could do a post for England/Wales/NI.

Anyone? I know I’m not the only poster from Scotland/NI who gets frustrated at the lack of understanding that we do things differently!

This is an interesting idea for a thread. Please could someone write about Swedish / Danish / Norwegian schools? I keep hearing people say “Well in Scandinavia, children don’t start school until they are seven”. I find this unhelpful, partly because my children don’t live in Scandinavia and partly because I have always understood that children in those countries do attend nursery / preschool and therefore do learn to read etc before seven.

Nursery in Scotland - children who turn 3 before Christmas are eligible for a place from the day of their birthday.

Good thread. I think I have a fairly good understanding of the English system but is Wales the same as England? And how does it work in NI?

You are not guaranteed a place at your catchment school in Scotland, although the vast majority do get a place. This is not a legal requirement - the legal requirement is that the education authority has to provide you with a place at a school within the council boundary.

CruCru my experiences aren’t in Scandinavia but in US and Germany both which start schooling later.
In the US there were definitely similarities between kindergarten and reception so kids did start school with some literacy/maths skills.
In Germany they really don’t start reading until later. But, it’s a lot easier to learn to read and spell in German than in English because spellings are much more standardised so they catch up very quickly.

It's not consistent in England. Some places have infant and junior schools, some just have primary, there are some middle schools, some schools have sixth forms, some don't and students need to go to separate colleges, some academies go right through from age 3 to age 18. The above doesn't depend on area, you can get all of them in the same city. Some parents send children to private day nurseries, some to nurseries attached to primary or infant schools, some areas still have grammar schools, some don't. It's very difficult to generalise.

You are not guaranteed a place at your catchment school in Scotland, although the vast majority do get a place. This is not a legal requirement - the legal requirement is that the education authority has to provide you with a place at a school within the council boundary

That’s correct. But you can stay on the waiting list for your catchment school and you will be second top priority for the first place that comes up. Also your LA will arrange transport for your child if the new school is outside walking distance.

Wales

Both Welsh and English medium schools both exist - though place availability in different areas varies.

Welsh tests - yearly test from year 2 to yr. 9 - cover reading and numeracy. ( No SATS)

GCSE - still have grades A* to G

Welsh is compulsory till 16 - but as a second language in English medium school

GCSE maths is split into Maths and Maths Numeracy. (DD1 been told in Wales she won’t need to remember formula unlike England apparently)

Welsh Baccalaureate is a qualification.

Esty is the school inspection authority.

There's probably more.

but is Wales the same as England?
No it's devolved and education come under Welsh assembly - so there are increasingly more differences.

Thank you for this thread OP! I’m a fellow Scot and now feel I can refer anyone making comments about school back to this thread!

Thanks for the correction re: catchment schools in Scotland. Apologies for my mistake.

Just a question though - why would someone who is in zone be second top priority for a place? In our city first priority for placing requests/waiting lists is someone who lives in zone. (Second priority is an older sibling at the school)

Also Wales doesn't have grammar schools and very few have opted out of LEA control. I can only think of one large high school in Cardiff that's independent from the LEA and not private (possibly the Steiner one too but not sure about the age range of that one). Most children will go to their local primary then high school with admissions criteria set by LEA.

Oh that’s interesting about maths being split in Wales bigKite. I had no idea about that. I know several schools in NI use Welsh board exams for GCSE/A Level but presumably not for maths then?

I grew up in NI and find it strange that here in Scotland English is NOT split into language & literature - even at higher/advanced higher level. My DC aren’t at the exam stage yet, and due to the recent and varied changes to the exam structure and content, most of my friends with older DC and even friends who are teachers can’t explain how things all work!

A great, detailed post, OP. Can I just add that we follow Curriculum for Excellence from age 3-18 ( although commonly referred to as Curriculum for Excrement in secondaries!) which goes through first/ second / third levels then National and Higher levels.
At S4 ( age15/16) pupils can do a variety of National 3/4/5 and even an early Higher - increasing in difficulty. E.g a pupil.who is less able in one subject could do Nat 3, then Nat 4 the next year ( many EAL kids do this in English although we do have an ESL qualification too). The idea is that their is provision for all, not just for academic pupils. Nat 5 = GCSE Higher= Alevel/ AS level.
. It's nowhere near as good as the old system of Intermediates/ modules, but it's all in the cause of 'progess' apparently.

The English system confuses the hell out of me. Can anyone tell me how you know which school you're child is going to and what pupils do who are not able for GCSE?

Also there are no grammar schools anywhere in Scotland.

(To complicate matters some ex-grammars kept their names when the system went comprehensive. So a school called Musselburgh Grammar is actually a comp).

Fee-paying schools are "private". DH who is English cells fee paying schools "public" which to me is a contradiction in terms.

There not their and your not you're - ruddy phone!

Ha! Does anyone actually like CfE wildbhoys?

CruCru - I can't answer for Scandinavia but in Germany (North Germany at least) children don't start school until aged 7 and do not learn to read or do maths before then unless parents teach them at home. They attend kindergarten where education is focussed around play. They usually also begin learning English in Kindergarten, but obviously just spoken not written.

I don't know any more as we moved away when my children were still Kindergarten age, but I can ask DH to give me an overview of the full system later if anyone is interested in what it's like there. He's very proud of it and hates the English way.

Interesting OP that lang/ lit not separate, it never has been. Overwhelmingly pupils find language MUCH harder and often struggle / fail due to it ( English teacher here). In literature section all pupils must study a Scottish text, which is noble, but it is prescriptive with us being told to.choose from a list, not free choice depending on your class!

When I was at school Maths and Arithmetic were separate and that was great ( bit like Wales perhaps?), don't know why they ever got rid of that?

If the school year starts mid August why is it parents can defer children born in January/February only to the following year?

Thank you for starting this thread. It's really useful for someone who dreams of moving to Scotland.

For England:
Some 2 years old are entitled to 15 funded hours, which can take place at a school if they offer 2 year old provision.

All 3&4 year olds are entitled to 15 free hours prior to starting school. Eligible children can get 30 funded hours. This can be at a school nursery, childminder, or a maintained or independent nursery.

Children usually start school the September after they turn 4, but are not obliged to start until the term after their fifth birthday.

The first year of primary is called reception, then it is years 1-6.

Sats take place in year 2 and year 6. Year 2 sats are locally marked, and data is not gathered nationally.

Children also have a phonics screening test in year 1.

Do Church schools exist in Scotland or Wales? If so, how does that fit with the usual application for a place system?

YANBU

Rosamore ditto your DH, I think age 7 is far preferable to start formal schooling. I held my Feb born DS3 back so he was 5.5 and not 4.5. There are grumblings here in Scotland to make it age 7 but it'll never happen as the government would then need to invest heavily in good kindergarten from age 4 and they won't, sadly.