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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU not to tell the father of my children that we're leaving the country?

57 replies

powercutie · 18/10/2018 09:17

Warning - long one! The gist of the problem is stated at the end.

My ex fiancé, father of DS (4) and DD (6), hasn't seen the children in over a year.
When I met him I thought he was the nicest guy. We were young, and I got pregnant very quickly. I was too young to notice a lot of the red flags and we decided to go ahead with it, and we were really happy for a time. After DD was born things got tough, I was alone in the emotional labour and most of the childcare and I was too busy to recognise that a lot of what was going on wasn't right.
Nothing ever got done. My ex handled finances and practicalities, and yet seemed to accomplish nothing, always saying that people were screwing him over and cheating him, and that's why we for example couldn't get internet or he hadn't been paid that month or whatever you can imagine.
My things started to go missing - and by things I mean ID, passports, bank cards - id order a new bank card and it would never come, I'd finally find my passport so I could access my bank account in the bank but it'd disappear on me again. This went on for about a year, and I truly believed I was cursed. I remember crying my eyes out on the sofa one day, saying "I think someone's out to get me, I think something dark is messing with my head". He looked at me with big sad eyes and said he thought I must be right.

Needless to say, a few weeks after DS was born, I finally realised my ex was the one stealing my things. I demanded them back and was able to access my accounts, and that's when I realised he'd stolen my bank card and he'd been using my money, overdrawing, not paying bills. Turns out he never had an income himself. Few days later I got a knock at the door to inform me I was about to get evicted because the rent on my newly bought apartment had never been paid (I'd literally no idea). With the help of my mother we were able to pay and stay, but I have a massive debt to my name now that he refuses to help pay off.

He said he was mentally unwell and I went with him to have him sectioned. I had the idea that if he wasn't well, then what kind of partner would I be to turn my back on him? We went a few times. Newborn strapped to my chest. But he kept lying and in the end he told me he never really loved me and left.

After all of this he pretty much disappeared for a year. He came now and then to play with DD for an hour but that was it. Then when the kids were slightly older, for about a year and a half he had them regularly because he was doing better. But it all went wrong in the end - one day I was tucking DD in after a weekend with him, and she told me he'd "gotten really angry and put his hands around her throat". She was 5. I shook all night.

He hasn't seen them since. DD has been through a terrible time, after the traumatic experience and then the "loss" of her father and his entire family, as they all chose to believe I was keeping the kids away from him - in reality I just said that we needed help and I would never remove their father from their life, but we would absolutely need help and support from outside, or else I'd never feel secure letting the kids spend time with him. Not that they wanted to after that.

But he's never turned up to any meetings, and there have been MANY. Meetings about our family (his chance to stay in touch and ask for help). Meetings about DDs mental health (she has struggled terribly). He didn't even show up to the court dates when I applied for full custody (I got it).

Once, about six months in, he sent me a text with the words "can I take the kids to the playground tomorrow". I replied that since he hasn't seen them for six months and hasn't responded to any professionals and has no clue what's going on, that he'd need to apply for visitation through the system, but that I'd be willing to work with that. He never contacted us again.

I wanted to get that full story out here once and for all as I've actually loads of things I want advice on! But this time I'm going to focus on one specific thing.

We're moving to a different country next year, me and my children. We're going to live with my new partner in a quiet town and have a nice fresh start. We'll visit home often as my livelihood is based here and our family is here.

AIBU to not tell their father we're leaving??

OP posts:
SputnikBear · 18/10/2018 09:20

You could keep your mouth shut to prevent him finding out and causing trouble. But when he eventually finds out he could initiate child abduction proceedings against you. Or you could tell him up front to avoid him dragging you through the courts after you’ve emigrated.

BitchQueen90 · 18/10/2018 09:21

Do they have his surname? If they do and he is on BC you need his permission to leave the country. A lot of women are getting stopped at border control.

makingmammaries · 18/10/2018 09:22

YANBU. I’d do the same. There’s no reason for you not to go, but he might try to prevent it if you tell him.

BitchQueen90 · 18/10/2018 09:26

I don't think YABU but there are legalities involved. I have to take a written letter of permission from my exh when I take DS abroad because DS has his surname.

MacosieAsunter · 18/10/2018 09:26

I suppose if you up sticks and disappear, there's not a lot he can do.

Without asking where you are going, a lot of countries have reciprocal agreements to return the children.

MacosieAsunter · 18/10/2018 09:28

I have to take a written letter of permission from my exh

Who checks the signature - whats to stop you writing a letter and signing it in his name?

Volant · 18/10/2018 09:29

You need to post in the Legal section. I suspect that, since you have full custody, you may well have every right to do this, but you need to check.

silvercuckoo · 18/10/2018 09:32

If you take them without his permission, he can return them via Hague convention / child abduction procedure, and the state will cover the legal bill for him.
The only exception is if the country you are relocating to is not a signatory to the convention.

tiggerkid · 18/10/2018 09:33

Not entirely convinced you are actually allowed not to tell the father you are leaving the country. Probably best to get some legal advice on that.

powercutie · 18/10/2018 09:34

I'm under the impression that having full custody means that I don't need his permission to move. I can't however refuse him visitation with the children, but that's hardly relevant at the moment since he doesn't see them anyway 😬

OP posts:
ExFury · 18/10/2018 09:34

What does your residence agreement say?

Please do not do this without getting proper, professional, legal advice.

If he doesn’t turn up to court proceedings you’d be better getting permission first. Don’t put your kids at risk of you being arrested for abduction.

Also if he hears on the grapevine and tries to scupper it last minute it’ll be upsetting for all of you.

powercutie · 18/10/2018 09:35

I should add that we're not in the UK - but advice is noted, I shall look into the legalities properly to be sure.

OP posts:
ExFury · 18/10/2018 09:35

You need to check if not needing his permission to move extends to abroad.

Bekabeech · 18/10/2018 09:36

You'd need to check with your solicitor. However by Country do you mean just England, Scotland, Wales? If so then I'd think there are even fewer reservations on just moving.

Hellohah · 18/10/2018 09:38

I'm going on holiday today, with DS.
Haven't told his dad, he's seen DS twice in 18 months.

powercutie · 18/10/2018 09:41

We would be moving from Scandinavia to the UK.
It absolutely would be upsetting if he were to cause a scene just before we leave - part of the reason I don't want to tell him. He hasn't given a shit up until now but I suspect he would try to obstruct out of malice.

As I've mentioned, the last time I looked into it, it appeared that I wouldn't need his permission to move out of the country. I'll contact a solicitor to double check that information.
I do however think he can ask to go to court to change custody? I don't believe he'd actually go through with it, as he never shows up for anything, but it could certainly drag things out unbearably.

OP posts:
slimjemima · 18/10/2018 09:48

He hasn't been a reat dad (hue understatement) but he is their dad and I think morally , if not legally you need to tell them.

MyBrexitGoesOnHoliday · 18/10/2018 09:53

Legal advice.
Seriously, if you take the dcs out of the country wo his agreement, you could end up in a dire situation (child abduction etc...).
The fact you have full custody is great but you really to be 100% sure that having that means you can just take the dcs with you. And that you can do that wo telling him.

IF this is the case, then I’m not sure I would let him know tbh....

Angelil · 18/10/2018 09:53

Holidays and moving abroad are definitely different things.
I know it's tempting not to, given his past behaviour, but PLEASE do things by the book OP. This area of law is essentially my husband's profession and I cannot even begin to tell you how serious things will get if you do not have the law on your side.

cakecakecheese · 18/10/2018 09:56

Check the legalities but if you can get away with not telling him then I wouldn't tell him. I disagree that you owe him anything 'morally'. He put his hands round his child's throat, he doesn't deserve any contact with them at all.

Angelil · 18/10/2018 09:56

(Though why you would want to leave mainland Europe for the UK right now is anyone's guess...! Pick basically any other European country and you will have a better life...)

Dollymixture22 · 18/10/2018 09:59

You need legal advice. Find out where you stand. Few, if any, people here will have the legal expertise to navigate this one.

I hope you reported his physical abuse of your tiny daughter to the police.

Good luck with the fresh start - you all deserve a lovely life away fromthis monster

LizzieBennettDarcy · 18/10/2018 10:04

You need proper Legal advice.

Not internet forum advice on such a serious matter.

You don't want to end up being charged with abduction.

Enko · 18/10/2018 10:07

OP you need a local solicitor Depending on what Scandinavian country you are in it may not be as simple as saying " you just wont tell him" So get some legal advice and go ahead with this in a way that means your x doesn't get a chance to return and say you have deliberately moved away without telling him.

Get legal advice and do the move with a clear continence.

jcsp · 18/10/2018 10:08

I wish you well in this and can understand why you are doing this.

But to come to England? I like to think we were pleasant and understanding to those coming to live here.

I’m not so sure now. The Home office etc seems an unpleasant and untrustworthy body.

Theresa May "The aim is to create, here in Britain, a really hostile environment for illegal immigrants".

And not just illegal ones either.

Many recent actions have made me feel ashamed of the Government, England etc.

Jump out of the fire, yes, but perhaps not into this frying pan.

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