to have found out friend is a paedophile. (May be triggering)

[upsetaboutfriend]

I've held off writing this and have changed my user name even though it's probably obvious. I thought discussing it with friends and family would be enough but it's not, I'm still struggling. I came here to find out if anyone else has been in a similar situation and whose thoughts were like mine.

A mutual friend ( we have all been friends since adolescence) sent me the newspaper article. I saw his picture, I read the article but I was shocked and I felt disbelief. He pled guilty to all the charges; one of which was using a false identity to attract minors and another was possession of images of child abuse, some of which were Category A. I had to find the definition of Category A to understand just how serious it was. After reading it, my immediate feeling was that he is evil. How could he derive pleasure from this? How could he contribute to and enable the evil of child abuse.

The reason I ask all these questions is because he was my friend not some random person I didn't know. I'm applying these moral standards to him that I assumed we all shared but he obviously doesn't have them. Did he ever have moral standards? Was he ever the person I thought I knew? I feel like I'm grieving for a person that never existed. Do paedophiles who commit offences ever feel a shred of remorse? I mean real remorse for their victims and a true appreciation of the gravity of their actions? Might he have tried not to offend before just deciding to give into the urge?

I feel that now I can't be trusted to make friends especially as I have a young son. I knew him for ever a decade and I never once thought something was off. Maybe only one slightly strange thing. Why didn't I get bad vibes? I arrogantly trusted my ability to make friends with good people.

We know paedophilia is not uncommon, I always was aware of the fact I could know one but for it to be an old friend is something else entirely. I made friends with a man who has probably ruined children's childhoods and possibly their life. He has most likely caused devastation to his family. I still can't believe he had it in him though I know it's true.

I must point out that I would never continue my friendship with him because of his abhorrent crimes and the fact I have a young child. He has clearly anticipated this outcome as he has tried to block us on social media and changed his name.

@FishCanFly it is the job of an adult to teach a child- even a teenage child- safe boundaries.

It is the job of an adult to say 'yes, you are very attractive, and it's kind of you to say these things, but I am x years older than you and it is not appropriate. These feelings belong with people of your own age group.'

And adult has insight a child does not. That is what distinguishes children from adults.

Op what you are feeling is very normal.
We had this situation years ago in our immediate family when my uncle was found to be sexually abusing his daughter.

It was absolutely horiffic and I remember going back over every situation over the years to see if I could have prevented it but sadly not.

It broke my dgm in two. She is a god fearing catholic and has brought up 3dc. 2 of them are decent, the other was him. He is now dead, died early fifties and nobody talks about him.

Our surname is not common so when it was in the press it was clear that he was related to me. I also had the police at my house asking questions. Child abusers deserve to rot in hell.

I agree @Fishcanfly that is a massive leap but I don't really find sexting teens under the age of 18 Ok depending on the age gap. Teens may think they are in control of a situation but are often just not. Echoing @Rixera, it's the job of the responsible adult to recognise that fact and keep them safe not exploit it.

OP have a look at the the NSPCC pants stuff online to get a sense of age appropriate stuff for your DC to know. They have age appropriate cartoons etc. You have had a shock and are understandably feeling protective of your DC, you can give them basic messages without scaring them.
No one can tell if someone is sexually attracted to DC just by looking at them anymore than you can tell other sexual attractions. As a pp said it is just part of their existence and other parts may be likeable, funny or anything else.
Regarding the photographs if investigators had reason to contact you they would have done. If there are no reasons to suppose that he photoshopped images then I wouldn't assume that this had happened.

The thing is, because a lot of the people who get caught for this kind of stuff seem kind of "off" or pervy, it's easy to get the impression that they're all like that and therefore easy to spot. But the fact is that the more "normal" men who lead normal lives and seem like decent people are just much less likely to be caught because they can hide it better. Doesn't mean they're less likely to exist though!

I'd also guess a fair few of men who appear totally "normal" and "nice" have feelings like this but never act on them, so you'd never even know.

I'm normally really good at sussing people out and have rarely found that I've been wrong in my opinions. However I did not pick up on any signs at all a few years ago, with a seemingly gentle, inoffensive, older man who went to our modern jive class. He came across as the most unassuming, quiet, gentle and decent man you could imagine and although he was less than scrupulously clean and smelled (which I put down to him being a widower and had neglected himself completely after his wife died), I really did think that he was a sweet, old-fashioned gentleman who would never have hurt a fly. How wrong I was.

At the class one night, the barman handed me a newspaper cutting. It showed a photo of this man and that he was being jailed for nine years. He had lured children into his house with the promise of sweets, danced around naked and the children did so too. Eventually, a little girl had mentioned something to her parents and it resulted in a full investigation, court case and jail term.
He expressed remorse but I thought that it was a pointless sham as he had a choice in everything that he did and each time, chose to exploit and abuse these poor children.
He will be out now, assuming that he is still alive. His son was going to take him into his home after being released.

I saw none of this at all and if someone had told me that there was a predatory paedophile in our dance class, he would have been among the last on my list. It definitely made me question my confidence in assessing people.

I would definitely file a report in your shoes as otherwise you will always wish that you had done so.

Good luck and hugs OP

@upsetaboutfriend Wed 17-Oct-18 13:13:50

• @missonitsimpossible. Sorry I didn't write everything in case some people thought I was putting in too much detail. Don't worry, he is awaiting his sentence. It is very very likely he will be jailed. I would be appalled if not.*

Don't hold your breath:

metro.co.uk/2018/10/16/paedophile-walks-free-after-saying-hed-lose-uni-place-if-jailed-over-new-child-abuse-picture-8044402/?ito=social&fbclid=IwAR0J6IT6W60Twtymn18iBC3ZtNfZxlMhShBHsqcc3-LvcU4nNW8wN_KyirI

metro.co.uk/2018/10/16/warped-and-sadistic-paedophile-gets-sentence-cut-8043716/?ito=social&fbclid=IwAR3H6VZD3UTpWcgHG0d0T8dzqgrTf_pmTQQgRvbECUvmRJA0ndbFcPtuKbU

Those are just two I saw yesterday.

No real life experience but no I don’t think they are capable of feeling remorse. I think they will say so to gain sympathy but it is all an act. They feel sorry only for themselves and the fact they were caught.

Don’t blame yourself for not having a bad feeling about him.

I often think men would be hard pushed to spot a rapist, because a rapist isn’t going to be predatory around other men, he’s not going to make men feel uncomfortable or on edge. It’s women that would get the sense that something is up with him, whilst men would think he was a nice normal guy. The same kind of applies to this guy, presumably you didn’t have kids around when you used to see him? So you’d never have been a whitness to that side of him.

@AngelsSins. He was never a boyfriend although when we were younger, he pursued me for a bit. He has been around my child. Never unsupervised as my child is very young. Obviously I would rather he had never been introduced.

@Eliza9917. The judge who ruled he would not be jailed is as hideous as him.

I have said quite a few times that we as a species need to get away from using the term "evil people" as it does us no favours. Every single one of use is physically capable of murder/assault and inflicting harm on another. The majority of us choose not too. There is no evil people just people that can not conform to societies standards for whatever reason. And by labeling them Evil, you are intentionally alienating them from you so you feel safe ( and different to them) , but also preventing you spotting the signs of a person that is more likely to be an abuser. There is no inherent evil with a person.
And I say that as a survivor of child abuse and rape.

Gavin De Becker The Gift of Fear is a good book to help you pick up your own instincts and trust yourself and your judgement.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's a horrible thing to have to deal with and I don't think it's ever one of those things anyone anticipates will ever happen to them or to anyone they know. We had a very similar situation, but with a family member (well, married partner of a family member). Though in his case, he was arrested and convicted of sexual assault (against a child under 12) and even worse, quite a few family members went to great lengths (for years!!) to hide this information from us so that he would be able to have access to our dc. Fortunately, we have no reason to believe our children ever came to any harm. They were never unsupervised with him (though, of course, abuse can still happen in plain sight and I acknowledge that), but though he was around them regularly, never in a capacity that would have allowed any harm to come to them. Equally they were also not his 'target age' (pre-teen, our dc were baby/toddler stage), but never the less, it was horrible. Made even worse because of the deceit and the extent that people in our lives that we trusted went to to hide this from us and make sure we never found out and could block further contact with our dc.

Fortunately, we did find out as we eventually had to be notified as we were planning a holiday to stay with family (including said family member and her partner) and it came out that in order to stay over in the same house (we never had before, which was weird, but I actually went years thinking it's because they hated me for some reason!), we would need to meet with the police to consent to the overnight stay as a condition of being on the sexual offenders register. If not for that slip up (they thought his 10 years would be up before the holiday, which is why they planned it, but turns out the dates got messed up and his was still under restrictions on those dates), we probably never would have known. We've since faced years of gaslighting and manipulation by several family members for not just 'being cool' with his past and getting over it and allowing him contact with our kids (hell no!!). It's fractured our whole family and though we do have a lot of support from many people in our lives, others have been downright nasty and abusive to us because we've not just buried our heads in the sand.

Like you, it's made me completely question my own judgement. I trusted these people and they intentionally misled me and manipulated me to facilitate his contact with our children. They still would be if we hadn't cut ties. We've become the black sheep, the ones who are 'too precious' about their children, who can't see what a victim his is and how much all of this is ruined his life and us doing this is just one more 'injustice'. It's truly like living in the twilight zone some days. How did I not see that these people we trusted would do this to us? It's made me so paranoid about everyone else too.

My stepdad isn't close to his own biological children (bad divorce, caused by his wife, but which affected his teenage daughters at the time quite badly). I've gone as far as to panic and distance myself from him and my mum at times worrying that maybe he abused his children too? Is that why they don't speak to him? He seems so lovely and kind, but how do you ever know? It's awful. (I should add, I think my stepdad is great and don't actually think he would hurt a fly, but this stuff really messes with your mind). I've had panic attacks about kindly old men coming up to my dc on the street and talking with them. How do you know anyone's motives after something like this? It's a mindfuck.

My advice would be to talk about it, keep talking about it, make sure everyone in your life who has had contact with him gets the information you've gotten so it doesn't stay a secret, and give it time. It's been several years since this all erupted for us and it's better now. I'm still angry some days. Said family member is still there, still aggressive and occasionally sends abusive texts to my dh (we've considered a non-harrassment order, but not pursued it yet), we still can only attend limited family events, but I don't have the anxiety I used to have and things are much better. Hang in there. I know it's shit.

@mindutopia. These people are almost as bad as the abusers. It's completely shocking. The abuser needs to experience full and lasting consequences for their actions. Why do some people help to minimise and cover them up?!

@upsetaboutfriend These people are almost as bad as the abusers. It's completely shocking. The abuser needs to experience full and lasting consequences for their actions. Why do some people help to minimise and cover them up?!

They feel bad that they didnt see this in that person. This opens questions about their judgement and leaves them open to criticism and being stained/tainted by association so sadly yes....some people do cover it up to protect their own interests. Basically my mother when i told her husbands best mate was raping me on a regular basis

I'm going through something similar at the moment but we are waiting to see if he will be charged.

The difference in my case is that it is the partner of a friend who was caught with these images on his computer. The police raided one day and took all the mobiles, computers, tablets etc.

I had never liked the partner and was wary around him and didn't allow him to be near my DC and as he was partner to my friend I found it easy to avoid being in his company. He was in a position of trust, like a scout leader, so has had access to young children.

When it came out that he was arrested, he came out with he was depressed and was suicidal so thought if he was locked up for this crime then he would be killed inside. BULLSHIT! I don't believe this crock of shit for a millisecond but it seems to have tricked some people into believing him. My friend is parroting this so they have been cut out of my life. Anyone minimising this sickening crime cannot be trusted around my DC.

I know he probably won't get a custodial sentence which sickens and angers me. Truth known, I think this happens far more than we realise and the law hasn't caught up with the link of viewing these images to it creating a demand for the images so more children abused.

Also I would quite forgive sexting with teenagers
I wouldn't. Not always, but sometimes behaviour like this makes it clear that the person has very poor boundaries. These red flags, but red flags that are excused or ignored by many adults.

Meant to say above that behaviour like this is not always displayed by a paedophile. But an adult sexting with teenagers has very poor boundaries and it is always a red flag.

I recently found out that my DM was sexually abused as a child by a family member, and her mother (my DGM) was one of 6 girls and they were all sexually abused by their father. Weird to think that I’m the first generation going back possibly many generations who this hasn’t happened to. Made me think that sexual behaviour towards children has probably been an entrenched norm in society for a long time.

upsetaboutfriend Wed 17-Oct-18 14:29:42

• @Eliza9917. The judge who ruled he would not be jailed is as hideous as him.*

Most judges in this country are hideous if the sentencing is anything to go by. It makes you wonder how far into this the establishment are tbh.

With all the cover-ups, minimising of these crimes and lack of sentencing, as well as blatant blind-eyes, when you look at it all as a whole it starts to look suspicious.

Especially when you look at the ridiculous sentences of other crimes that are fairly insignificant in comparison.

This makes me think of the Blake poem 'A Divine Image' - it shocks us to realise that 'evil' is not an abstract concept, but a human being we may know and care about:

Cruelty has a Human heart
And Jealousy a Human Face,
Terror, the Human Form Divine,
And Secrecy, the Human Dress.

The Human Dress is forgéd Iron,
The Human Form, a fiery Forge,
The Human Face, a Furnace seal’d,
The Human Heart, its hungry Gorge.

I'd also guess a fair few of men who appear totally "normal" and "nice" have feelings like this but never act on them, so you'd never even know

...and they may well BE nice! They can't help who they are attracted to!

..so long as they don't act on it of course!

I'm in my late thirties now and only found out a few years ago that my grandfather sexually assaulted my cousin when she was 16. I would have been about 10 at the time.

My parents knew about this because our fathers were brothers and my uncle told my father. Everything was brushed under the carpet and it was never discussed.

What freaks me out now is the fact that my parents knew about this and STILL left me alone with him afterwards. He never did anything to me, but obviously there was a massive chance there that he could have.
I also found out a few years ago that a local girl had a baby years ago and he was believed to be the babies father, but from what I can gather, I don't think it was consensual and I think it may have been rape.

I'm NC with my parents now for numerous reasons (physically, mentally and emotionally abusive childhood) but am horrified as an adult at the danger that they put me in, and at the fact that my grandfather (dead for about 20 years now) was what amounts to a paedophile and possibly a rapist too.