To say no to 15 hour flight with two toddlers?

[Beeperbird]

My older sis lives in Asia and can’t come back for Christmas this year (tradition to be all together). We were planning a holiday to meet halfway but that has fallen through due to expense of halfway locations!
She now wants us to all fly out to see her, but I don’t really want to as 1) it’s 15 hours with two toddlers, 2) if we’re travelling all the way somewhere surely it makes sense cost wise for her (as one person) to come to uk to see us rather than all 8 of us - my parents, us, my other siblings) to go to her! Never mind the environmental impact!
She thinks I’m being ridiculous and that Asia would be a fantastic adventure, which it would be but just not practical!
We suggested a family holiday in uk to make it more special for her to come back but she’s turned her nose up saying “it’s not worth it for her”

Would you be travelling on your own with 2 toddlers or with partner and other family members? If so then I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t do it unless it’s a cost issue. I don’t blame your sister wanting you all to finally go over there seeing as she’s been back to the U.K. 5 years in a row. Wouldn’t it be nice to see her in her home with all your family? I don’t think she’s being selfish at all and I’d take it as an exciting adventure for all. Yes flying with kids is shit but it’s what you make of it at the end.

"My older sis lives in Asia and can’t come back for Christmas this year"

You say she "can't" come back for Christmas this year ... not won't, but can't. However she has done so every year for the past 5 years, possibly because she doesn't have children or the same depth of commitments as the rest of you have.

She would like everyone to come to her this year.

Actually, I totally understand that you don't want to fly out to Asia for Christmas, with two toddlers, if that sort of travel with children is something you wouldn't enjoy and are not comfortable with.

How would you feel if your parents and other siblings went out Asia to spend Christmas with your sister, this year, and you and your DH had the kind of Christmas you prefer in the UK with your toddlers? Perhaps even with your DH's family?

Would you be okay with that? If so, perhaps you should suggest it, making it very clear to your family that you are completely okay with them spending Christmas with your sister this year.

I see it from both sides having lived abroad and now live home with small children. From her perspective if she does the travel every year Home for Christmas maybe she is too exhausted to do it this year (there must be a real reason) so I get that it’s a huge upheaval for you guys and you don’t want to do it but equally why should she? May just have to do it differently going forward. Sorry OP my brother isn’t coming back this year and I’m on my own (from my blood relatives) so I do get it xx

Life's too short to put yourself through this kind of hassle.

I have close relatives on the other side of the planet that I would have loved to have not broken our family all together at Christmas family tradition with, but it's not practical. Skype is our friend.

Stay home and ENJOY Christmas.

Your sis is definitely being unreasonable. Once you have kids Christmas is all about you creating memories and traditions for your children not everyone still pandering to the spoilt adult elder sister. The DC only believe and you have the Christmas magic for a short time don’t waste it traveling to Asia. It will be a resentful nightmare for you awful for your DC and very costly as on top of the Christmas flight to Asia I expect all 8 of you will be expected to foot the bill for accommodation in a hotel (which doesn’t sound like it will be very Christmassy or festive) as I’m guessing your sis is unlikely to be able to comfortably put you all up at her place. Politely decline and enjoy your Christmas. If other family members want to pander to her let them still carry on.

"Your sis is definitely being unreasonable. Once you have kids Christmas is all about you creating memories and traditions for your children not everyone still pandering to the spoilt adult elder sister."

Don't quite see where you get the "still pandering" bit from Cumbrianlass66.

Op (and the rest of the family) have never travelled to the sister's for Christmas. The sister has always travelled to them. This year she can't come (that is 'can't, not 'won't'), so has invited them all to her.

You think that if they went they would be "still pandering" to the sister?

What a strange view.

It really depends what you want, how much all the alternatives cost and what you and your family, including your older sister, want to spend.

Some families would regard this as a marvellous opportunity and an adventure whereas others have said that they couldn’t imagine such a journey or a holiday with two toddlers.

My feeling is that you don’t want to go at the moment, but that you might be happy to consider something when your children are older.

Whatever happens, I hope you all have a lovely Christmas and you enjoy yourselves.

PS There seems to be quite an unpleasant feeling from some posters here about ‘bossy’ older sisters - I’m an older sister myself and frankly, younger siblings can have their moments too! 😉

Am new to mumsnet. What’s Yanbu mean?

Cumbrianlass that is the most ridiculous and selfish thing to say. Sadly it doesn’t all become you when you have kids either! Hardly think the woman is selfish if she has been back 5 years on the trot. If the rest of the family want to go then they should!

Tell her to enjoy her Christmas and you will see her next year sometime. Put yourself first. That would be horrific.

Yanbu = "You are not being unreasonable"

Yadnbu, I wouldn't consider it at all. No way. With kids would be a nightmare.

Its irrelevant that your sister has travelled every year to visit her family in her home country, SHE chose to move away. How is that now your problem? Or your Dcs? All they will want is to get wrapped up in the festive excitement of their xmas morning sat around the tree and all the little traditions it involves. No way would I take that from them.

We moved 3 hours away when dh and I were in our twenties and did almost every visit home (every other weekend) and every xmas. Never did we once expect anyone to visit us let alone at Christmas. If you're happy to move across the globe you then can't complain about nobody wanting to travel to you. It doesn't sound like much of a holiday for your poor family op. Maybe if your parents are happy to go then they can just visit and you can have the Christmas youd like for the Dcs

So it isn't worth hauling her single butt to the UK to share Christmas with family, but she expects a group of people with young children to agree it's worth it to them to do it? Nah, she'd be off my Christmas card list with that attitude!

I've lived overseas for 15 years and have done the lions share of travelling with and without kids
I have to say I've felt some resentment toward my family members who expect DJ and I to lug our kids across the world twice a year and have never reciprocated. Having said that our kids are old pros now and we can't see why anyone would find it hard to do lol
That said if I were a single childless ex pat I think the travel would fall to me or at the very least finding a middle destination to all meet in

YANBU. A tradition can be broken, difficult as it may be. Modern technology does mean hopefully you can speak (or even video talk) on December 25th.

Sasstal67

So it isn't worth hauling her single butt to the UK to share Christmas with family,

With this attitude you would be off mine as well. Just because she is single doesn't mean that she has to run around due to the whim of her family.

Set the family table with a tablet/laptop at one seat ( ie for your SIS ) then simply Skype/FaceTime her while you all eat together.

BoneyBack
But she expects them all to do exactly that for her, with not an ounce of consideration given to the logistics of doing it with numerous offspring in tow. I know if I were in her position, I would hopefully be gracious enough to say that as I don't want to Christmas in the UK, I wouldn't expect entire families to travel just for me, and we could Skype this Christmas and hopefully look forward to a big family bash next year!

Only you know your children and whether they (and you) could cope with the journey and destination.

DC1 was a dream on a plane, she's flown a few times during the mobile toddler years. DC2 has never been on a plane (for good reason). He's an absolute pain when restricted, he tantrums and screams if he doesn't get his own way (which he doesn't with behaviour like that, but he'll try it on especially if he knows I'm a bit stressed about it). He copes well with our discipline at home but he gets frustrated and lets it out. It would never end well on a plane. However, I'm sure once he's older we will fly again.

Maybe it's a conversation with your sister to reassure her it's not a permanent no, plus less pressure on her to fly over if she doesn't want to. It's no harm to have Christmas apart sometimes, enjoy time with your own family, make some new traditions. Maybe your parents could fly out as there's no reason why it has to be all or none.

Does she want to spend Christmas with all of you? You say it's tradition, but if you're separated this year, who, if anyone will actually be upset?

I can see her being sick of travelling back for Christmas having done it for 5 years - maybe this way she isn't the bad guy when you decide you don't all want to do the travelling.

Spending Christmas apart could be the start of a brand new tradition... doesn't mean you're not close anymore, just that circumstances change.

YANBU Agree with BrisaOtonal Christmas in Asia is a non event. Your sister has her life and should not expect the rest of the family to accommodate her even for Christmas. Two toddlers for 15 hours then deal with time zone changes, heat, all the stuff you will need to take with you, NO WAY. Dont think your sister has any idea what's involved.

I'm guessing she doesn't have any children, but she's expecting you to schlep halfway across the world with 2 toddlers?

No chance. You've offered a compromise and she's turned her nose up at it.

Time to start a new tradition - one that works for you as a family.

She's acting like a spoilt brat to be honest.

I would take mine yes. But not over Christmas.

Regardless of how many times in a row your sister has made the trip, it doesn’t change the logistics on this proposal. 15hours on a plane with 2 young kids is no joke. Have done it, and the last time we flew long haul to be with the in-laws for Xmas, monstrous expense aside, we all agreed it would be our last. We have our own family Xmas. And they have theirs. I am guessing your sister doesn’t have children, as my SILs were exactly like this before they had kids of their own. Completely clueless!

Thanks everyone.
I’ve tried to explain about my reservations about taking the kids on the plane in numerous different ways, but she just doesn’t get it and seems really frustrated with me.
I’m happy to spend Christmas apart this year, Skype as some people have suggested and also if my parents want to go out there without the rest of us that’s fine by us too... however my sis is now angry with me for not agreeing to come over and has stopped replying to my messages!
Hopefully things will resolve soon I’d hate to fall out badly over this.